BW35 stubborn plug
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Thread: BW35 stubborn plug

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default BW35 stubborn plug

    What is it?

    The 3/16" Allen head plug shown in the attached photo closes the tapping point for monitoring the pressure in the BW35 transmission fitted to my 1974 DS23 (carby).

    I have so far been unable to remove it using 3/16" Allen keys and welcome suggestions as to the best way to tackle it. There is about 200 mm space between the plug (located on the side of the transmission housing) and the front sidemember.

    Why is it important?

    It is well documented that automatic carby DS23s are typically on the sluggish side; mine is lethargic in the extreme and I suspect the auto trans stator may be slipping, so I want to perform the stall test as described on page 196 of the 814 part 1 workshop manual.

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    The work required to correct this problem is substantial; hence my interest in performing the stall test.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BW35 stubborn plug-bw35-pressure-plug.jpg  

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Well it will be a metric size anyway - probably 5mm. Is it slipping yet? Do you have some 3/8 square drive metric allen key sockets? Maybe visit the tool store and get a half inch drive impact driver type for a bit more strength.

    Cheers, Ken

  3. #3
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    Thanks for your reply, Ken W.

    I think the impact driver route - with heavier Allen key sockets - is the way to go; however, it is definitely 3/16". 814-1 says so and I've tried a 5mm and it doesn't fit, whereas 3/16" does.

    The main symptom of concern with the trans is very sluggish take-off, which I understand is indicative of a slipping stator.

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    Not sure what you are going to check by removing the plug . I thought a stall test was foot hard on brake , hold throttle pedal to floor and note what engine revs to with car " stalled " , from memory it should be about 1750 rpm.
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  5. #5
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    I believe you are correct, Rally - as far as the stall test is concerned; however, I also want to check the ATF pressures, as specified on page 196 (Op. D.bw 354-0 page 5) of the 814 (part 1) workshop manual.

  6. #6
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    Apply Chemsearch Yield to any thread that is not moving.

    It is super wick in compound but the best, saves fracturing, breaking, stripping the head or bolt
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  7. #7
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    The steel allen key plug will have grabbed onto the threads of the aluminium gearbox casting over the last 40+years. So good luck getting it to loosen nicely.

    Cheers, Ken

  8. #8
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    Default BW35 stubborn plug

    Thank you, driven and Ken W.

    I was unaware of Yield, but some further research has turned up some more options: and
    The RR thread suggests auto trans fluid and acetone. Perhaps I should just add some acetone to the ATF (which is already there)!

    Seriously, I might try a couple of these (Yield and Loctite) and see whether they break the bond between the plug and the casing or whether the two are effectively welded.

    By the way, an MGB BW35 service manual says the recommended torque for this plug is 4-5 ft lbs; Citroen just says "fit the plug".

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Do you have an impact driver there ... Something like this:

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Impact-D...item213eb440cb

    If that didn't work .... I'm move straight onto my rattle gun ...... And hope like hell I don't wind the threads out of the aluminium housing as the plug comes out!

    Try candle wax first though. I've seen it work miracles.



    a small butane torch is all that is required (you don't need a big oxy set). Its amazing what using candle was releases.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  10. #10
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    Hi
    Shane what setting would you use on your rattle gun for a 3/16" allen hex adapter ??????????????????
    I suggest the heat gun for an initial soften up and as you have restricted space some of the suggestions are impractical.
    I would then use 3/16" hex to 10mm bit that i have with a 10mm ring for turning and a second person applying a hit to the top of the bit with a lump of flat bar or similar and see how it goes. You will be able to feel the effort applied and any turning.
    good luck, Jaahn
    PS I would also try a transmission flush in the oil to see if that will clean out any gummy deposits from underuse and may be causing the lockup clutch to slip. Have to get the transmission hot for them to work. A stall test will do that
    Last edited by jaahn; 12th June 2018 at 10:24 AM.

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi
    Shane what setting would you use on your rattle gun for a 3/16" allen hex adapter ??????????????????
    I suggest the heat gun for an initial soften up and as you have restricted space some of the suggestions are impractical.
    I would then use 3/16" hex to 10mm bit that i have with a 10mm ring for turning and a second person applying a hit to the top of the bit with a lump of flat bar or similar and see how it goes. You will be able to feel the effort applied and any turning.
    good luck, Jaahn
    PS I would also try a transmission flush in the oil to see if that will clean out any gummy deposits from underuse and may be causing the lockup clutch to slip. Have to get the transmission hot for them to work. A stall test will do that
    Yeah I would use a socket and extension to the rattle gun if I could. I've never worked on the automatic version. So am unsure of the placement of the plug. Be warned, using extensions on your rattle gun reduces its effectiveness enormously. I've not been able to undo wheel nuts in the past with my big 3/4" rattle gun ............ I removed the short extension bar and they unscrewed straight away!
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  12. #12
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    Bush Mechanic again

    Drill plug out on centre with a large diameter drill, loosens grip on thread, may need several goes

    OR

    Drill through as above, retap plug hole with smaller size and screw in bolt to seal, easy

    OR

    Weld on a rod to plug and easy tap to remove.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    Bush Mechanic again

    Drill plug out on centre with a large diameter drill, loosens grip on thread, may need several goes

    OR

    Drill through as above, retap plug hole with smaller size and screw in bolt to seal, easy

    OR

    Weld on a rod to plug and easy tap to remove.

    The latter method is sound, albeit as a last resort.

    However, the former suggestion has a serious flaw , the risk of introducing metal swarf into the service port of an automatic trans.

    When I went to school , cleanliness was an essential part of keeping autos working properly.
    Last edited by robmac; 12th June 2018 at 08:17 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Thanks for all the suggestions and comments, everyone.

    Getting back to my original issue (suspected slipping stator); the ATF looks OK, but it has been in there a long time (if not a lot of miles) and I wonder whether there's some merit in jaahn's suggestion: I would also try a transmission flush in the oil to see if that will clean out any gummy deposits from underuse and may be causing the lockup clutch to slip. Have to get the transmission hot for them to work. A stall test will do that - or even just a couple of drain/refills with Type F ATF (the brew that's recommended for the DS23 BW35), as it only yields about 2.5 litres (of the 6 litre capacity) per drain.

  15. #15
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    The 2.5 litres is the 'change' amount as per the book. There is a lot in the torque converter which is never drained in the old style auto's. The BW35 is the automotive tranny whore of the '60's, '70's and '80's!
    You need to get the ATF hot and a dose of cleaner is needed. I'm sure Nulon etc do a tranny cleaner/voodoo additive to un-gum the pistons and such. Use as directed and results may not match the pictures.
    Brendan.


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    Hi
    You should do both, the flushing 'voodoo' additive first, drive etc, and when you drain, leave for a long drip time, a day. Probably get another 0.5-.7L more out. Then run for a 'bit' and then change again, same method. Then refill again also with the 'voodoo' stuff. Get it hot every time and for a few Ks in the hills to circulate the fluid and flush the shit out of the converter and all the other nooks and crannies.

    I was told to do that back in the '70 with the father inlaws' 2 speed powerglide Kingsy which was playing up after very little use. Fixed it up presto and restored it to slushmatic 2 speed glory
    Bon Voyage Jaahn

  17. #17
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    Thanks for your additional thoughts, jaahn.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi

    I was told to do that back in the '70 with the father inlaws' 2 speed powerglide Kingsy which was playing up after very little use. Fixed it up presto and restored it to slushmatic 2 speed glory
    Bon Voyage Jaahn
    bluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr [scenery going past]

    [pause]

    bluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr [scenery going past slightly faster]

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    Try holding a short drift [of some type of material] against the plug and give it a good once only hit with a large hammer [large because of the restricted amount of available space for a normal swing with normal size hammer]. That method usually loosens these type of plugs.

  20. #20
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    Plenty of time to view the scenery in my D, UFO - especially when going uphill!

    Thanks for the suggestion re the use of a hefty persuader, shanadoo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citquery View Post
    What is it?

    The 3/16" Allen head plug shown in the attached photo closes the tapping point for monitoring the pressure in the BW35 transmission fitted to my 1974 DS23 (carby).

    I have so far been unable to remove it using 3/16" Allen keys and welcome suggestions as to the best way to tackle it. There is about 200 mm space between the plug (located on the side of the transmission housing) and the front sidemember.

    Why is it important?

    It is well documented that automatic carby DS23s are typically on the sluggish side; mine is lethargic in the extreme and I suspect the auto trans stator may be slipping, so I want to perform the stall test as described on page 196 of the 814 part 1 workshop manual.

    The work required to correct this problem is substantial; hence my interest in performing the stall test.

    Hi, it's normal metric thread. Heat the area up until you can unwind.

    cheers,

    Harry Martens

  22. #22
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    Thank you, Harry.

    For those who aren't aware of Harry, it's worth visiting http://ds-vitesse.com/en/ or searching Harry Martens Limmen Citroen
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