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  1. #26
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Bugger. There must be something. And it will be obvious with hindsight.

    So what has NOT been verified?

    1. That solenoid is (a) getting power with the ignition on, (b) getting power WHEN CRANKING and (c) operating when it has power

    2. Independent review of timing (sorry.....)

    3. Are any vacuum lines disconnected allowing too much air into the wrong holes? There should be one to your non-existant distributor vacuum capsule (does it REALLY not have a vacuum advance?) and another from the funny air-solenoid that slightly opens the throttle when AC is switched on (there's a little air capsule device on the carby with a pipe to the solenoid device near the radiator expansion chamber).

    4. Something else? I can't imagine what. However, the fact that the accelerator pump squirts doesn't mean a jet isn't blocked. Be nice if a good CX person were close enough to come and have a look.

    Do you have a workshop manual?

    Mine stranded me a few weeks ago as a jet had come loose in the float chamber. Rush hour, stuck in a bus lane, overwhelming traffic volume and overwhelming traffic noise and the RAC refused to touch it in the bus lane (I was 80 m from a side road.....). Flat bed for a few minutes with a screwdriver (once diagnosed of course....).

    Hmm. As before, best wishes.

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    JohnW

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  2. #27
    Fellow Frogger!
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    It sounds very much like a dead condensor to me.You can piggyback on another one to test this suggestion. Hawk

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37dhw8 View Post
    Hi Alec,

    I have a ballast resistor installed with my new coil.

    Leads are in the distributor cap in the order 1-3-4-2 clockwise (have confirmed that this is the direction my distributor turns). Did this all according to the instructions set out for 'test lamp' in the Haynes manual - everything checks out OK. Rotor is at lead 1 at 10 degrees before top dead centre, according to the flywheel markings.

    I had been spraying the starting fluid right down the barrels of the carb - is this wrong? Choke was off whenever trying to start with fluid.

    I took the top off the carburetor yesterday, and the float bowls looked to have a decent amount of fuel in them.

    Probably something stupid I'm forgetting honestly. Absolutely stumped.

    Thanks so much for all your help !
    Well you really are eliminating a lot of possibilities! Sorry to have implied you might be doing something stupid - you really seem to be eliminating all these possibilities quite logically (at least as far is possible without any diagnostic equipment).

    Re the starting fluid - yes down the carby throat should be fine. On a fuel injected car, usually if you disconnect the airfilter you will have an intake tube leading to the throttle body - wasn't sure of the setup in the CX.

    Cheers

    Alec

  4. #29
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37dhw8 View Post
    Hi Alec,

    I have a ballast resistor installed with my new coil.

    Leads are in the distributor cap in the order 1-3-4-2 clockwise (have confirmed that this is the direction my distributor turns). Did this all according to the instructions set out for 'test lamp' in the Haynes manual - everything checks out OK. Rotor is at lead 1 at 10 degrees before top dead centre, according to the flywheel markings.

    I had been spraying the starting fluid right down the barrels of the carb - is this wrong? Choke was off whenever trying to start with fluid.

    I took the top off the carburetor yesterday, and the float bowls looked to have a decent amount of fuel in them.

    Probably something stupid I'm forgetting honestly. Absolutely stumped.

    Thanks so much for all your help !
    You say rotor is at number one lead with fly wheel marked at 10 degrees BTDC. Are the exhaust and inlet also both closed on number one cylinder? ( flywheel end ) If not the dizzie is 180 degrees out!!!!!!!
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    Cheers Gerry

  5. #30
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    I have confirmed that the jet with fuel happily being sprayed out of it is the accelerator pump jet, but I can't confirm the other ones. Is cleaning as simple as unscrewing them and soaking in carb cleaner?
    79 cx2400 pallas c-matic

  6. #31
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    How good is the battery? I vaguely recall that I couldn't get a CX to start on a cold morning, even with a jump start. I could only get it to start if I put the good battery actually into the car itself.
    I haven't read this thread entirely, but has anyone suggested putting 12 v directly to the coil temporarily and then hitting the starter?

    Regards, Erik

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37dhw8 View Post
    I have confirmed that the jet with fuel happily being sprayed out of it is the accelerator pump jet, but I can't confirm the other ones. Is cleaning as simple as unscrewing them and soaking in carb cleaner?
    Try something simple. Disconnect the tacho from the coil. CX not starting...-97e8bdc8-231f-4a0f-ac5d-e46ca4e89c55.jpg
    Citroen C5 II manual '05; C4 Exculsive '07; Citroen CX2200 Pallas '76; CX2400 C-matic Pallas '78

  8. #33
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37dhw8 View Post
    I have confirmed that the jet with fuel happily being sprayed out of it is the accelerator pump jet, but I can't confirm the other ones. Is cleaning as simple as unscrewing them and soaking in carb cleaner?
    Unscrew yes, inspect against the light to make sure there isn't a simple particle of dirt blocking it/them and blow it out. Carbie cleaner won't dissolve junk necessarily. In line with earlier comments, I imagine they'll be clean! They need to be pretty tight when going back in, but not ridiculously so.

    You do know the way the coil works? The ballast resistor runs the coil at reduced voltage when the car is running, but is by-passed when the starter is activated, getting the full 12V to the coil. Hence Erik's sensible suggestion.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikbm View Post
    How good is the battery? I vaguely recall that I couldn't get a CX to start on a cold morning, even with a jump start. I could only get it to start if I put the good battery actually into the car itself.
    I haven't read this thread entirely, but has anyone suggested putting 12 v directly to the coil temporarily and then hitting the starter?

    Regards, Erik
    The battery is good, I think... I'll have to try using the battery from my dads car (a prius) and hope it's powerful enough. I've had similar issues when trying to jump start! The car was just turning very slowly. I'll try another battery and see how we go.

    I've tried temporarily bypassing the resistor, to no avail. If it means anything, on the inside of the resistor (it wasn't sealed or anything), the material around which the resistance wire was wrapped was split and frayed.
    79 cx2400 pallas c-matic

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinandfonic View Post
    Try something simple. Disconnect the tacho from the coil. Click image for larger version. 

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    Interesting... I found the tacho wire, loose in front of the radiator. Doesn't look like it was connected to the coil in the first place...
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    79 cx2400 pallas c-matic

  11. #36
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    OK so as a final idiot check I turned the plug leads 180 degrees ... car cranked for a bit and backfired LOUD. Does this make me closer to the solution or further away?
    79 cx2400 pallas c-matic

  12. #37
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    You got a Bang!!!! That means there is some form of ignition happening. Go back to basics. Remove the rocker cover and set the engine so that inlet has just closed and is coming up onto compression for number one ( water pump end ) watch through the bell housing aperture and turn the engine until the 10 degree mark lines up with the notch in the aperture. I use a large screw driver to slowly advance the crank until the correct advance before TDC is reached.
    Make sure that the engine is turned anti clockwise looking from the water pump end. Your levering movements with the screw driver will be toward the rear of the car.
    (Lever on the ring gear teeth with the driver, working through the timing sight apperture). Now set the distributor so that the rotor points to the number one lead. You should then be at 10 degrees BTDC ( before top dead centre). Lock the distributor clamp bolt here.
    Cheers Gerry

  13. #38
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    Well the backfire means you've got fuel and spark ! It also means that at least one cylinder is currently firing when the valves are open - sounds like it was better the way it was before.

  14. #39
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    I set the timing according to your instructions, Gerry, and still the best I can get is that slow r-r-r-r pausing from the starter motor. Fearing I might have worn out the battery, I'm leaving it to charge now. Is it possible that the cranking speed has been too slow right from the beginning? It's always been very slow but it does feel as if it would go if the cranking speed was faster.
    79 cx2400 pallas c-matic

  15. #40
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    Could the starter solenoid be cactus?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37dhw8 View Post
    I set the timing according to your instructions, Gerry, and still the best I can get is that slow r-r-r-r pausing from the starter motor. Fearing I might have worn out the battery, I'm leaving it to charge now. Is it possible that the cranking speed has been too slow right from the beginning? It's always been very slow but it does feel as if it would go if the cranking speed was faster.
    Mine starts from cold on full choke even if it barely turns over due to low battery after a couple of weeks of non-running. There's something else and it does smell electrical as someone said at the start....

    Just saw the "bang" email. Back to ignition timing...… Is there an CX owner anywhere nearby???

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Could the starter solenoid be cactus?
    It spins, sparks and tries to fire, even going "bang". Not the solenoid I'd suggest.
    JohnW

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  18. #43
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    yeah... If anyone is near East Malvern area I'd love your help - there's a reward to whomever manages to get it started, haha.

    I'm completely out of my depth here. Perhaps people would like to recommend a mobile mechanic?

    Thanks for all your help
    79 cx2400 pallas c-matic

  19. #44
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Do you belong to a Victorian club?
    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Do you belong to a Victorian club?
    Yes, I'm part of the CCCV
    79 cx2400 pallas c-matic

  21. #46
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Do you belong to a Victorian club?
    Good question! I would recommend 'The Citroen Car Club of Victoria'

    https://citcarclubvic.org.au/
    Cheers Gerry

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37dhw8 View Post
    Yes, I'm part of the CCCV
    I suggest you shout for help! This might be something quite obvious to someone who knows the CX well.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  23. #48
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    thats a case of beer job righr there!

  24. #49
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Any joy?
    JohnW

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  25. #50
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    if its backfiring. You still have the timing wrong. You have fuel and you have spark for a backfire. The timing is just wrong. You need to set it statically first.



    Find Top Dead center on the compression stroke. He is using his finger to see if there is compression (I've never had sucess with this as access is always to restricted). So find the compression stroke (use a length of fuel hose down the plug hole, you will hear it hissing when you find compression). Once you hear it hissing, put a drinking straw down the plug hole and turn the motor over until the drinking straw is at its highest point. This is top dead center on No1.

    Now, does the timing scale point to around 0degrees If its not, double check you are on the compression stroke. If it still isn't right .... well that sucks, your timing marks are wrong. Now move the engine until it points to about 10degrees on the timing marks if you can.

    So this is the spot the engine should run at ... and probably be quite ok to leave at without any further messing around.

    unscrew the distributor cap. mark on something that shows where the rotor bottom is pointing (eg: a hose nearby or bit of body). refit the distributor cap. Is the rotor button pointing to No 1 ?? If it isn't rotate the distributor until it does. If you can't rotate the distributor enough, you need to pull it out, rotate the dizzie so it points near enough to number 1 as you drop it back in. Or.... Pull all the high tension leads off and plug No 1 in where the rotor bottom is pointing.

    now grab a multi-meter or test light. Slowly rotate the dizzie until your light goes out (ie: the points open). You will need to check the points gap before doing this.

    spin the engine over and watch which way the rotor button spins. In this direction plug in the rest of your HT leads. 1 then 3 then 4 then 2 .....

    It should now start and run if you have spark at the plugs and fuel.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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