DS HP pump seals
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  1. #1
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    Default DS HP pump seals

    After spending all weekend looking for leaks in the usual places I have finally found the source. The HP pump is leaking and it looks to be from the front bearing so I'm guessing at least one of the front seals has given up. Seeing as The whole pump has to be taken apart to get to them, I'm thinking its a good idea to replace all the seals. Does anyone know of a place in Melbourne that stocks seals in the appropriate sizes? Ludowici Seals have some of them but are missing the 18.7x1.9 & 15.7x2.7 ones for the pistons.

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    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    External leakage from the front bearing is unrelated to the front seals of the pistons themselves and you can repair that leak without completely disassembling the pump. Simply remove the outer can. (If the tool you use to press of the outer can threads into the pump body, be sure to replace and re-torque the bolts immediately after removing the can so you don't disturb the seal between the pump body and the pump face.) Next, test the pump for internal leakage by applying pressure to the output port. If the pump body holds pressure and does not drip fluid, it does not need to be rebuilt. There is a bronze face seal behind the bearing that forms a face seal against the back of the bearing. This is the source of your leak. To get at the bearing, you have to press out the shaft. The bearing will then fall out. Replace the O-ring on the bronze seal (use Viton if you can find it), then polish the back of the bearing where the seal rides using #600 then #1000 paper. Lightly polish the seal carrier and reassemble the pump.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 TAV Legere; 61DS19 LHM BVH (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM EFI (Megasquirt); 73SM 3.0 (other son's)

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    Just rebuilt mine and didn't polish the back of the bearing

    Restoration of a 1968 Citroen DS21bvh Pallas
    Last edited by Budge; 28th May 2018 at 04:11 AM.
    1968 DS21bvh Pallas in Gris Palladium

    Restoration blog: https://ds-restoration.blogspot.co.uk

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    Thanks for the info John, the seal in the brass carrier is the one I was referring to. What you describe sounds very close to complete disassembly. The valve carriers and pump body would be the only parts left in place.

    I ran across your blog last night Budge while trying to figure out how it all comes apart. That has to be the best explanation of taking apart and rebuilding a pump written in English.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    Just rebuilt mine and didn't polish the back of the bearing

    Restoration of a 1968 Citroen DS21bvh Pallas
    What a wonderful resource is Aussiefrogs. It is often a case of "seek and you will find"...
    Whoever set up this site is to be praised...and now international to and fro as well. This is more than just the wonders of the internet, a real international co-operation.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    the DSSMpassion guy has a two videos on youtube strip and repair put back together again so you can see what you're about to do which I thought is useful. I watched the one on regulator and it was really helpful as I hadn't done one before.


    this is the first and you can see the second after,

    https://youtu.be/i9W9uXk4gRQ

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    Default My Two Bob's Worth

    Quote Originally Posted by faulksy View Post
    After spending all weekend looking for leaks in the usual places I have finally found the source. The HP pump is leaking and it looks to be from the front bearing so I'm guessing at least one of the front seals has given up. Seeing as The whole pump has to be taken apart to get to them, I'm thinking its a good idea to replace all the seals. Does anyone know of a place in Melbourne that stocks seals in the appropriate sizes? Ludowici Seals have some of them but are missing the 18.7x1.9 & 15.7x2.7 ones for the pistons.
    From memory (it was a couple of years ago) I was able to source the o-rings from BJ Bearings in Campbellfield and/or possibly Bearing Wholesalers in Thomastown. I found that if you have the bits of the pump with you, and the original seals, then they can be very helpful in finding either exact replacements or very close alternatives.

    While complete kits of seals are available from overseas, I like to at least try to source these things locally whenever possible.

    I'll try to attach a table I came up with at the time of rebuilding (2014). Hope it helps.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS HP pump seals-citroen-d-series-hp-pump-seal-list-rev-3-reduced.jpg  
    Last edited by pottsy; 28th May 2018 at 10:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by faulksy View Post
    After spending all weekend looking for leaks in the usual places I have finally found the source. The HP pump is leaking and it looks to be from the front bearing so I'm guessing at least one of the front seals has given up. Seeing as The whole pump has to be taken apart to get to them, I'm thinking its a good idea to replace all the seals. Does anyone know of a place in Melbourne that stocks seals in the appropriate sizes? Ludowici Seals have some of them but are missing the 18.7x1.9 & 15.7x2.7 ones for the pistons.
    There used to be a place in London Drve. Bayswater that could supply any seal you wanted. If it was not in stock they could even cut one to suit.
    I believe their name was Manning Industrial!
    Cheers Gerry

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Interesting. I thought most of these pumps had cracks in the alloy housings once you pulled them down.... Yet we appear to have plenty of people here that have successfully rebuilt them This is a great thing And gives those with leaky pumps some hope for repair!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Interesting. I thought most of these pumps had cracks in the alloy housings once you pulled them down.... Yet we appear to have plenty of people here that have successfully rebuilt them This is a great thing And gives those with leaky pumps some hope for repair!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    These pumps could be those that had been rebuilt in the past by people who had sourced the machined steel (s/s?) bodies that someone in CCCNSW arranged. Stocks sold out over 10 years ago.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by faulksy View Post
    Thanks for the info John, the seal in the brass carrier is the one I was referring to. What you describe sounds very close to complete disassembly. The valve carriers and pump body would be the only parts left in place.

    I ran across your blog last night Budge while trying to figure out how it all comes apart. That has to be the best explanation of taking apart and rebuilding a pump written in English.
    Thanks Faulksy. I found the confidence to tackle my car by Googling and finding things like the threads on Aussie Frogs. So it's a pleasure to be able to contribute to the wider body of knowledge.

    And yes (Forumnoreason) - those DSSMPassion videos are extremely helpful too.
    1968 DS21bvh Pallas in Gris Palladium

    Restoration blog: https://ds-restoration.blogspot.co.uk

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by faulksy View Post
    Thanks for the info John, the seal in the brass carrier is the one I was referring to. What you describe sounds very close to complete disassembly. The valve carriers and pump body would be the only parts left in place.
    True, but if the pump is still holding pressure, it means the valves and valve seats are still sealing. If you take the valve carriers out you run the risk of disturbing the seal and seat orientation and ending up with a pump that has internal leaks. Once you take the valve carriers out of the body, you should lap the valve disks and the sealing lip of the valve bodies to make sure they will seal properly (steel on steel).
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 TAV Legere; 61DS19 LHM BVH (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM EFI (Megasquirt); 73SM 3.0 (other son's)

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