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Thread: New tyres for the C4 Coupe

  1. #26
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    After a nail in the tread edge of one of the tyres on my wife's Forester today, I'm now getting another 4 RE003 tyres. 2 for her for now & 2 will sit on my local BJ storage shelf until her or my daughter's Forests need a pair. (The $100 off for 4 deal was worth having.) One joy of a soft compound is that they wear out before the compound starts going "off" for wet roads. $100 a tyre for 215/60-16 is quite good I think.

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  2. #27
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    Ok so 205/ 55/ 16

    looks like the mitch lovers have it

  3. #28
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    Sorry Peter, I missed your post asking me about size for my 206 - they're 205/45 16. I've pretty much decided to go for the 003's anyway, as I don't do many km and I will rotate them (something I didn't previously do).


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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Sorry Peter, I missed your post asking me about size for my 206 - they're 205/45 16. I've pretty much decided to go for the 003's anyway, as I don't do many km and I will rotate them (something I didn't previously do).
    Move swiftly if you want the $100-off deal as it ends at the end of May. There will be future offers but....
    Last edited by 4cvg; 29th May 2018 at 08:47 PM.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by don View Post
    Ok so 205/ 55/ 16

    looks like the mitch lovers have it
    I can't imagine you dismissing the PS4 as crap on any criterion. Once you've had a couple of thousand kms in them you might tell us what you think.

  6. #31
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    Thanks Peter, booked in for tomorrow!


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  7. #32
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    I now have grip!


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  8. #33
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    I just got the pair of RE003 tyres fitted today to my wife's Forester. Whilst at BJ, I had a look at the DOT treadwear rating for them & for the PS4 Michelin. About the same at 330 for the RE003 (more than I recalled) & 340 for the PS4.

    My local BJ is very tolerant of me & when chatting with the workshop foreman who does my work, I was talking about the edge wear & suggested a bit more -ve camber than spec & a bit of toe out. He agreed & we'll see how that goes.

    cheers! Peter

  9. #34
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    You're fortunate to have adjustable camber.
    Wildebeest likes this.


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  10. #35
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    Just a small postscriptum on the Michelin PS4:

    Walking through the car park on the way to a research seminar at my university, my eye was caught by a colleague's C5. It wears the PS4 in (if I recall aright) 245/45-18. Her commute to the university involves a windy road & (currently) wintry conditions.

    In short, she's very impressed with foul weather grip & reports no concerns with comfort.

  11. #36
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    Peter, I just noticed the RE003 treadwear rating is only 220, not 330.

    We kept the two off the rear of my son's Clio 1.4 thinking they weren't too bad and not wanting them to go to the rubber mat manufacturers, but one is almost down to the wear markers when I look closely at them. Then I noticed the treadwear rating, and checked my new ones and they're the same.

    So they lasted only 26,000km on the rear of a 1.4 Clio! They are worn nice and flat though. And we're talking about an 18 year old who likes punting around corners - an unfortunate byproduct of being my son.

    It's interesting that the Clio works its tyres quite evenly. I really rate the bread and butter Clio's suspension setup.


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  12. #37
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    We have just worn out a set of 003's on my wife's old Liberty. Grip, both wet and dry, is excellent as is turn in. Unfortunately they have only lasted 23,000 km.
    Shoulder wear is excessive both front and rear and as far as ride goes "rolling on steel hoops" springs to mind. Size is 205/50 X 16.
    They are also noisy and as someone commented earlier sound as if wheel bearing failure is imminent.
    Will probably try PS4's next

  13. #38
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    Out of interest, did you rotate them?


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  14. #39
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    No, I don't rotate on conventional RWD or AWD cars and have always found they wear quite evenly. I believe that once a tyre adopts a wear pattern to suit it's position, not moving it will ensure longer life. Those on the LHS will usually wear a little more because of poorer surfaces.
    Our 307s are much harder on front tyres so there is little choice but rotate if you wish to replace full sets. Interestingly, our 405s always wore evenly without rotation.

  15. #40
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    Re 220: Yes; I misread the sidewall (so,not 330 as I said above). 220 is more like what I had remembered from the past.

    As I've observed before, the best way to think about relative treadwear is not the treadwear rating but a function of that & price. RE003s often have a special deal offering & I doubt that I could better its cost/km in a longer wearing tyre. Anyway, I'd personally take wet grip over longevity every time.

    Re noise: obviously application dependent; nothing noticeable in either Forester.

    Re edgewear: most modern cars are set up to understeer & that works the front edges. A soft-compounded tyre like the RE003 can thus, despite substantial & braced shoulder elements, wear more there. Mind you, so will a hard-compounded tyre wear more there compared to other parts of the tread. It's just that the situation will be more quickly apparent with a softer compound.

    The most obvious remedial response is to rotate tyres. I rotate with a preference for an X-pattern rotation as it swaps what is usually the hardest working tyre (the left front) with the least hard working (the night rear).

    The other response is to play with pressures. Just that is done here depends on the vehicle & existing pressures.

    Three main possibilities obtain:
    The first is most probable & is as above: the car is overly biased towards understeer.

    In response, I'd try raising the fronts &/or lowering the rears to make the response to inputs more neutral. This takes some stress off the front edges. Two cautions are: be wary of overdoing it (try a lift-off in mid wet corner & if anything more dramatic than line-tightening occurs, then adjust back a notch); &: even if balanced, be wary of running too high a set of pressures. A radial has to distort the sidewall & laterally "migrate" the tread inwards under concerning loads if it is not to climb up on its tread edge. With something like the RE003, the bead area is stiffened to provide quick response & less of the sidewall height can distort to accommodate cornering loads & allow tread "migration". Over-pressurise them & the capacity for sidewall distortion is lessened too much & the tyre tread will climb onto its edge.

    The second is that the pressures are overall too high even though the balance is fine. Lots of front suspensions are set up with positive camber so the tyre edge cops it in a corner & the above remarks about reduced tread "migration" apply." Overall reduced pressures might help. As might a bit more than spec. front toe-out.

    The third is that some some manufacturers deliberately set low tyre pressure specifications to optimise ride. In this case, the tyre tread is migrating under load but (especially with a stiff bead area sidewall) runs out of "travel" & works the outside edge. It's migrating too readily at too low a load. So a bit more pressure might be a better compromise.

    Not simple I accept, to find the "Goldilocks" position. Note that different tyres of the same size on the same vehicle will require different absolute pressures & different front/rear pressure balance to produce a similar handling balance.

    I always set the handling balance up to be how I want it in the wet with any tyre type change & then raise/lower all four evenly to get the ride/handling balance how I want. Then I simply endure any wear issues (apart from using a bit more front toe-out).

    To 203: you'll love the PS4 although it might not be as crisp as the RE003. A tyre pressure balance with more front &/or less rear than the RE003 settingsmight be advised.
    With the RE003s, just before they go, try reducing all pressures by 2-3 psi. I assume that the rear geometry is in spec. but it sounds awfully like too much rear toe-in &/or +ve camber.

    cheers! Peter

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 203 View Post
    No, I don't rotate on conventional RWD or AWD cars and have always found they wear quite evenly. I believe that once a tyre adopts a wear pattern to suit it's position, not moving it will ensure longer life. Those on the LHS will usually wear a little more because of poorer surfaces.
    Our 307s are much harder on front tyres so there is little choice but rotate if you wish to replace full sets. Interestingly, our 405s always wore evenly without rotation.
    hmm! yours went up when I was writing the other one; I think that you are but partly right but saying why will have to await another night.
    Last edited by 4cvg; 11th June 2018 at 09:52 PM.

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    How did you go with the throttle pedal I lent you

  18. #43
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    Peter, interestingly my local Bob Jane seems to think about tyre pressures a bit. With the Mondeo, which is quite a heavy car, they specified in their little warranty book 39 all round which is actually what I'd always set it on for daily driving one or two up after years of ownership. Then with the 206, they specified 38 front, 36 rear. It shows they're putting some thought into 'proper' pressures, IMO.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Peter, interestingly my local Bob Jane seems to think about tyre pressures a bit. With the Mondeo, which is quite a heavy car, they specified in their little warranty book 39 all round which is actually what I'd always set it on for daily driving one or two up after years of ownership. Then with the 206, they specified 38 front, 36 rear. It shows they're putting some thought into 'proper' pressures, IMO.
    Nice to hear. My only comment would be to make clear to them what your vehicle behaviour priorities are so that you don't get a mere generic recommendation for the model. I'd be suspicious if they give the same recommendation for different tyre types to gain a required behaviour.

    As I've remarked before on AF, the easiest way to change a car's behaviour is to change pressures (the second easiest is to change type type).

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 203 View Post
    No, I don't rotate on conventional RWD or AWD cars and have always found they wear quite evenly. I believe that once a tyre adopts a wear pattern to suit it's position, not moving it will ensure longer life. Those on the LHS will usually wear a little more because of poorer surfaces.
    Our 307s are much harder on front tyres so there is little choice but rotate if you wish to replace full sets. Interestingly, our 405s always wore evenly without rotation.
    I have two observations.

    One is that it rather depends on vehicle suspension & pressures. Other things being equal, a FWD vehicle will indeed work fronts more than a RWD or AWD but other things are not always equal - a RWD car with front suspension designed to retain some positive camber under cornering load or specified with lower front premises to induce understeer will work the fronts. And so-called AWD can be basically FWD with "on demand" drive to the rear upon slippage. I have fond memories of a conversation with a (very civil) cop who'd pulled me over for speeding. He was driving a RWD Falcon which had flogged the outside front edges (a notorious trait of the model) & I suggested that, though still legal, they were very sub-optimal for a tight wet corner & he would be advised to draw the attention of the maintenance mob to them. He was pleased with the advice due scuttled on a warning for the feeding (of which I was guilty, although I pointed out that it was harmless in the road & traffic conditions).

    The second is that you're right that tyres take a wear pattern as a result of position but there can still be motivation for rotation that changes the direction of the tyres' rotation (Obviously,I don't speak of directional tyres.). When you examine the tread elements, you'll see that the leading edge becomes rounded compared to the trailing edge. (Perfectly normal & not a sign of misalignment.) This is less than optimal for wet grip. Apart from aquaplaning-resisting water-channeling & storage, tread elements (block edges & sipes) have work to do in penetrating the water film & in fostering mechanical interlocking with the micro-irregularities of the road surface (as does the compound). Rotate direction & you bring less chopped about edges into play.

    There used to be some concern about tyre rotation direction change which was to do with the structure taking a "set" but the point is no longer considered of any consequence with modern technology tyres (especially the widespread use of zero degree nylon cap plies restraining the steel belts.

    So, I'd rotate regardless of vehicle type & I'd use an X pattern. Two of my toys (rear-engined Renaults) have different sizes front/rear & I rotate laterally as my closest approximation to the ideal.

    cheers! Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by 203 View Post
    They are also noisy and as someone commented earlier sound as if wheel bearing failure is imminent.
    Will probably try PS4's next
    I find the PS4's to be slightly noisy, especially on concrete or course bitumen. Not sure if it relates to the very wide grooves in the tread? They grip well.

    New tyres for the C4 Coupe-tyre-groove.jpg

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnbull151 View Post
    I find the PS4's to be slightly noisy, especially on concrete or course bitumen. Not sure if it relates to the very wide grooves in the tread? They grip well.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not the wide grooves I suggest. Tyre noise is usually a matter of air being trapped in tread elements & compressed, then released. I'd be inclined to suspect the lateral grooves on the outer blocks.

    Personally, I am not concerned about tyre noise (drowned out by exhaust noise on my toys anyway) & if that is the price of otherwise splendid performance then so be it. YMMV.

    I trust that you are indeed finding them otherwise splendid.

    cheers! Peter

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