Ducellier alternator connections?
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Thread: Ducellier alternator connections?

  1. #1
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    Default Ducellier alternator connections?

    I've not got quite as far as refitting my alternator and my 1968 wiring harness is a tangled rotted mess. It's too far gone to make any sense of it.

    The workshop manual diagram shows three wires going to terminals of the alternator labelled as "Exc", "+" and "R". In the real world, my Ducellier alternator has four terminals and these are marked "exc", "+", "ind" and "-".

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    If I rashly take it that 'exc' and "+" are the same on the two, then I'm just trying to figure out which or either my "ind" or "-" equates to the 'R' of the workshop diagram.

    'Ind' is presumably short for "indicator". the 'R' on the diagram goes to the voltage regulator and then on to the dashboard charge warning light (the indicator?).

    If this is so, then that's three wires taken care of and the next question is what wire is meant to connect to the "-" on my Ducellier???

    (note: my car currently has a Ducellier 7558B fitted. It should be a 7551B - but the connections on that are exactly the same as mine)

    Ducellier alternator connections?-img_5287.jpgDucellier alternator connections?-img_6262.jpgDucellier alternator connections?-c6zfvfiwmaavqwt.jpg
    1968 DS21bvh Pallas in Gris Palladium

    Restoration blog: https://ds-restoration.blogspot.co.uk

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    You should be looking at your wiring diagrams Paul!

    for instance-
    Ducellier alternator connections?-004d0228-8ca3-404a-8141-b6f8bee3d57f.jpeg

    the alternator earths on mount so wire is not strictly necessary as -

    From the 814-1 repair manual diagrams you can see the BVH and BVM are different ( how do I know?!) and if you have a starter relay on battery then the L or red sleeve wire goes back to dash off the relay to starter side of the switch. The exc and IND wires are taped up into the loom and fold back from reg to alt in two branches of the loom, ie the reg and starter wire go in one strand and all the temp/oil gauge, reverse wires are sleeved in the other branch back to where the fuses and lamp wires split off.

    Ducellier alternator connections?-5bfef93b-5dd0-4403-aaa9-6c50b5c27367.jpg
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 30th April 2018 at 09:31 AM.

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    the original alternator's use an external voltage regulator mounted on the battery frame and all the diagrams in the factory manuals are for this setup. The alternator you have there looks like a much later one with an internal voltage regulator. If that is the case factory manuals aren't going to help much.

    It's possible the IND terminal would be the same as R. In the original setup the voltage regulator GROUNDS the lamp through a normally closed relay so you may need to do the same.

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    Thanks both. i will have a look at that diagram Forumnoreason.

    Faulksey: The alternator fitted to the car is original equipment and worked with my external voltage regulator. With my loom rotted away, and the terminals marked differently to the diagrams, i just can't figure out how to connect it back up. There is no voltage regulator inside it (I know because i had it all apart).

    As per one of my photos, the original fitting for my car would have been a Ducellier 7551B and that has the same terminals marked in the same way. The only difference is that a 7551B is 40A, whereas my 7558B is 50A. I just need to translate Exc, +, - and ind into Exc, + and R. Hopefully the clues will be in that diagram that forumnoreason posted.
    1968 DS21bvh Pallas in Gris Palladium

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    Are you using a Ducelier regulator?

    ps Faulksy posted that diagram on the thread I jumped on recently ‘DS regulator wiring’ : )

    on a correct Ducelier reg there is L (red sleeve) goes to dash, via starter lead, you need to check for your year model though I suspect, R (white sleeve) on reg to IND on alt and EXC ( yellow) to exciter which is the spade plug on alternator. The power out is the big + on the alternator.

    on the Ducelier reg there is also an earth on the body and the bobine + on the back for power in. Spade connection
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 30th April 2018 at 06:30 PM.

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    Hi
    Mine is a LHD 1968 model year car. It has a Ducellier regulator. Thanks: so you suspect that 'R' equates to 'IND'. I wish i could remember if the '-' on the alternator was used at all.

    Budge
    1968 DS21bvh Pallas in Gris Palladium

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    yerse. for the confusion effect if you looked at a regulator and saw R on it and looked at a wiring diagram and saw R on the alternator you would assume those were the connections. Not sure if Paris Rhone has R on it, might go look later, yes the R and IND are the connections you want. Are you getting the loom replaced? I would warn against one producer but they probably make them for all the other sellers anyway. I have a case of sour grapes going on that topic. Ah ha aha herrrr..

    I guess R stands for relais and L lampe.

    chuck an earth wire on it if you like, I did when stuffing around wih mine just so I coukdn't be accussed of not having one if it didn't work!

    Ducellier alternator connections?-ebdab575-ec13-4117-8e3e-ee43d4805832.jpg

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    Thanks again. I sourced a wiring loom through Darrin - so am not sure of the supplier behind it. 68 is a tricky model year but i was clear in what i asked for and the loom i've got back looks to be a faithful copy - in terms of finish at least. It came with a photocopy of the correct page/ diagram from the workshop manual, so I'm just hoping the loom has been built correctly to match! I won't be fitting ti l much later this year.......
    1968 DS21bvh Pallas in Gris Palladium

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    I think your car is the best version of the D. At least my favourite version, should be great when you finish. I'm attempting to put my 74 DSpécial on full rego tomorrow!
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    "Are you getting the loom replaced? I would warn against one producer but they probably make them for all the other sellers anyway. I have a case of sour grapes going on that topic. Ah ha aha herrrr.."

    That's why I'm making my own. What do mean, 12 relays and 16 fuses is overkill....

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    what are the extra fuses for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    I think your car is the best version of the D. At least my favourite version, should be great when you finish. I'm attempting to put my 74 DSpécial on full rego tomorrow!

    Congratulations Steve

    Wish I were in "ici" again to help you celebrate.

    Cheers

    Ken
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    what are the extra fuses for?
    Hello, I've put relays on nearly everything (except interior lights, wipers and side lights) and rather than using fused relays I used a 10 way fuse box with a common live for each relay. I just find the fused relays ugly, no other reason. The other six are where the old 4 fuse box was placed on the bulkhead, also with a common live feed.
    I've fitted driver and passenger fans, air con, additional rad fan and rear wash wipe for the Safari tailgate. I also used yet another relay to give a flick wipe facility. When I pull the wiper switch, it starts the wipers and squirts water onto the screen. Because there is always a delay to the washer, I get a single wipe.

    The ten are dipped, main, driving, horn town, horn country, air con, rad fan, driver fan, passenger fan, heated rear window.

    The six are supply to ignition switch terminal 3, to ignition switch terminal 5, indicators and interior lights, headlight switch, brake light switch, cigarette lighter and clock.

    Almost as over the top as this reply!

    Peter

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    um wow.

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    Hi all,I've got a bit of an issue with my charging system.I'm just finishing a 5 year restoration on my 71 DS21 and the alternator circuit is not charging (12.3 volts).Rebuild alternator and a new reproduction (mechanical) external regulator (same as the original - from Citroen Classics).I thought it was a grounding problem as the regulator sits on a bracket on the side of the battery.I ran a ground wire which extinguished the light for a short while - but it was only temporary.Because the car was running an internal regulator alternator for a while I had to re-establish the wiring to run the original setup. (BTW - I don't want to run an electronic reg setup - I just want the original lock out for the starter wand).I think firstly I'd like to make sure it's wired up correctly - then I'd like to be able to test both the alternator and regulator to see if they are working.The alternator has 4 terminals, on the back it has a +, - and EXC and on the side an unmarked terminal (my guess is for the light?). I've included some pics. Please ignore the spade terminal without a wire on the EXC - that was just there for testing - the correct wire is in the foreground.Is there a way of testing this alternator to ensure it's charging? I read there is a method to test by shorting the field wire (EXC?) to the positive terminal to see if it starts charging?Same with the regulator - is there some way of testing it in the car?Any and all feedback most welcome.Cheers,Mark

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    I never did get to the bottom of this as my engine is out of the car and so the alternator is not wired up. However I met a chap yesterday who has a car exactly the same age as mine, and which still has a separate alternator and regulator set up. He had a new repro loom fitted. I will drop him a line and ask him to describe the colour coding of the contacts in the back of the alternator. It will certainly help me and may translate to a set-up answer for you.
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    Are you sure the regulator is wired correctly, I see you have colour coded paint markings but these don't agree with the wiring diagram for a '71 BVH?

    Cheers
    Chris
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    Yes Chris spot on. I’ve subsequently realised that I reversed the R and EXC wires. Swapped them over and all is fine !
    Many thanks for the replies
    Kind regards
    Mark


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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Yes Chris spot on. I’ve subsequently realised that I reversed the R and EXC wires. Swapped them over and all is fine !
    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Many thanks for the replies
    Kind regards
    Mark
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    Glad it's sorted. Can you just spell out for me which coloured tag goes on which terminal of the alternator please? The workshop manual diagram shows three wires going to terminals of the alternator labelled as "Exc", "+" and "R". In the real world, my Ducellier alternator has four terminals and these are marked "exc", "+", "ind" and "-". The loom has three wires and the alternator has four contacts. Is one for an optional flying earth lead? If so, which one?


    You seem to have connected your white ended wire to the unmarked terminal on the side. Have I got that right? If so, it makes the unmarked one the equivalent of 'R' (and the 'ind' terminal on my Ducellier). If black goes to '+', then yellow must either go to 'exc' or '-' ??? Can you confirm at all please?
    1968 DS21bvh Pallas in Gris Palladium

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