Series 1 Xantia Power Steering very heavy and blowing rubber pipes.
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Thread: Series 1 Xantia Power Steering very heavy and blowing rubber pipes.

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Icon5 Series 1 Xantia Power Steering very heavy and blowing rubber pipes.

    Folks, this one has me puzzled.

    A few years ago I replaced the bushes in the power steering ram and all seemed to be OK. However during last year, the steering gradually got heavier and heavier to use. I put more air pressure in the tyres, but that didn't seem to help.

    Then it sprung a leak in the power steering flex rubber tube and started squirting copious quantities of LHM on the ground and over the gearbox whenever you tried to go around a corner. With Cit-in coming up and lots of work to do on the SM, it has sat in the garage for 3 months feeling sorry for itself.

    Now that Cit-in is over, I decided to try to fix it. I have replaced a section of the rubber pipe with some transmission cooler hose. At first it just popped off the metal supply pipe (lost a litre of LHM here) and then when I clamped it on better, it popped a hole in this rubber pipe as well.

    It seems to flow OK when there is no steering effort but as soon as you try to turn the wheel, the power steering pump seems to labour under very high pressure but it doesn't help to steer the wheels.

    Any ideas what is going on here? I am wondering about pinion valve or ram problems.

    I suppose I should replace the bit of hose first so I can start the engine to get it up high, then put it on stands and get right back under to the steering gear and have a look for anything obvious there.

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    Cheers, Ken

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger
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    Maybe, time for a pinion seal kit?
    Is the flow divider doing it's job? It won't have a separate steering pump and is very much like a BX in the steering department. Have you had any rubber debris in the system?

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    Typical Xantia. Only goes wrong when it is so old that the parts might be a problem.
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    JohnW

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  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger
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    The pinion kit is very similar if not shared with BX/XM and was available recently for a sensible price. I expect it remains available to order by part number. The flow divider is not hard to re-seal, but it does need adjustment and tooling to get the pressure control right.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Hi David,

    It is the last of the Series 1 from 1997 so it has a 6+2 pump which allows it to pump out heaps of LHM when the pipe pops. At least it is a bit simpler.

    I had trouble with the valve leaking about 2005 and it needed a hone to stop the leak and a few kits fitted. It is still not leaking but does seem to have stopped working. It does have nice clean LHM in it from a year or so ago. No other indications of rubber contamination in the system. I might look for a second hand one to practice a recon on.

    Cheers, Ken

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    Fellow Frogger
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    OK, 6+2 system then. I have a few spare loose pinions, but there is some variation and I couldn't be sure they would be exactly what you have. Maybe, look for a whole rack? A whole spares car may be easier to find.
    There is also a pinion service kit that is basically some cones for fitting up.
    The pinion kit listed for BX, XM1, XM2 is 4048Q8. I can't see it listed for the Xantia, but I expect it's the same.
    A couple of models seem to have a pressure limiter in the block that houses the steering pressure sensor. This may be absent in yours.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    I think PSA Service Box reports my valve as a 4048H7 which I saw listed somewhere else as a pinion valve for RHD. Thanks for the seal kit part number.

    Cheers, Ken

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Hi Folks,

    I am looking for someone with a parts Xantia - a late model series 1 between RPO 7127 and 7510 ie 1996 or 1997 that has steering intact and is willing to part with their pinion valve. Any offers out there?

    Cheers, Ken

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger
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    That pinion appears to have been used on earlier RHD Xantia 1 cars to RP 7510 (1/6/97) with 6+2 pumps, but not on all models, but some of the exclusions were not sold here. For your quoted range it suits:
    RIGHT HAND DRIVE EXCEPT TURBO INJECTION XU10J2TE EXCEPT TURBO DIESEL XUD11BTE EXCEPT INJECTION ES9J4)
    So a wider range than you may be thinking. I have some spare used pinions, some of which came from Xantiae, plus a Xantia rack. If you can get some photos of the pinion and it's connections, I'll see if I have one that matches. It may be best to remove the rack so you can clean and grease it, although you can do a pinion overhaul with the rack in place.

    Have you checked the support piston and spring beneath the pinion are OK? I had a broken piston on a CX, so it's not impossible for them to crack.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Thanks David,

    I will take some pictures of the pinion valve in-situ tomorrow. I took a good look at it all today and I have been trying to work out what is going wrong. It appears that when the valve is in neutral position - no steering effort, the LHM path though the valve is unimpeded as the 6 piston pump generates no pressure. But as soon as one moves the steering wheel either way, no LHM seems to go to the rack but the straight through path is closed off and the pump generates extreme pressure. The only thing I can think is that the pipe going to the large area side of the RAM is blocked or not being connected to either the return or supply side lines in the pinion valve as required to move the ram in the direction required.

    Either way I will have to replace both rack boots and I have two new tie-rod ends to fit as well as I noticed the beginning from some play there when I replaces the RAM bushes back in 2015. So I guess I should take the rack out anyway.

    Cheers Ken W

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Here are some pics of the suspect Pinion Valve in situ in all its sweaty glory. It is amazing what pics you can take with a mobile phone so long as you can hold it and get your finger onto that 'take a picture' button.

    Cheers, Ken
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Series 1 Xantia Power Steering very heavy and blowing rubber pipes.-pinion-valve-3.jpg   Series 1 Xantia Power Steering very heavy and blowing rubber pipes.-pinion-valve-2.jpg   Series 1 Xantia Power Steering very heavy and blowing rubber pipes.-pinion-valve-1.jpg  
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger
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    I have a used pinion that looks like that externally at least. You'd need to compare it with the existing pinion when you remove it, but it's presumably the right one. There is a valve under the screw-in adapter in the picture.
    pm a postal address if you want me to post it.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Thanks David,

    I received the pinion valve promptly thank you. So today I decided to start in earnest today. I have ended up wrestling the rack out because the pinion bolts were soo tight- man if was dirty in there. I think I will clean up a bit, then install David's pinion valve and pop it back in for a trial to see if that fixes the problem.

    Cheers, Ken
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    So finally some updates. I popped the rack back in with the alternate pinion valve only to find that it had a compression fitting on the supply pipe rather than the normal citroen rubber seal system that my car had. So out came the rack again and after a purchase of a 20mm six sided socket, the input couplings where changed over between the valves. Then the rack was installed back in the car and plumbed up to supply and return pipes. I replaced the blown rubber pipe section and started the motor. The steering turned very easily from lock to lock and back a few times with no labouring from the HP pump so the valve seemed to be working. Good news.

    However, next morning revealed a large puddle of LHM under the steering area. Guess what, the alternate valve was leaking. Should I try to fit a new seal kit to this valve? After a bit of searching around, I found that Euroserve had a kit so I raced over last Friday and picked it up. David S sent me the instructions for fitting the seal kit which involves the use of a special tool set 9036-T - a set of special shapes that assist in dismantling and reassembling the valve so that the seals are not damaged and it will work and does not leak. I know that when Euroserve stopped the original valve from leaking back in 2005, they used 2 kits before they succeeded. I also found some posts on the French Car Forum to say that even Pleiades find these difficult to get right.

    So I started to disassemble the valve to see what I would find. Here are some pics below.

    Cheers, Ken

    Series 1 Xantia Power Steering very heavy and blowing rubber pipes.-pinion-valveall-pieces.jpgSeries 1 Xantia Power Steering very heavy and blowing rubber pipes.-pinion-valve-apart.jpg

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Phew. It ought to be straightforward, as they assembled millions of them in the factory. Ought to be, but they had the tools and were doing it continuously I suppose.

    Good luck....
    JohnW

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    I'm jealous Ken, I just replaced a ram feed pipe to the pinion, had fun trying to get it out and had to remove both for some room, I had toyed with taking the rack out but we share a hoist here so didn't want to leave it on for too long, very tricky positioning new pipe back on as it needed some bending to find the sweet spot. I gave up trying to get the rack out too as I had a hell of a time trying to get the heat shield out, managed to free the clips but it just wouldn't twist the way I wanted. Good luck with the seals what a PITA.

    I think dead spheres have caused my grief, just wanted to share the Xantia pain : )

    Tell me you didn't take the rack out with the car on stands, I wouldn't try that in a pink fit as I was scared I'd end up RIP under a bomby old car.

  17. #17
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Tell me you didn't take the rack out with the car on stands, I wouldn't try that in a pink fit as I was scared I'd end up RIP under a bomby old car.
    So what sort of car WOULD you not mind being RIP under?

    John
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    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    oh a Maserati Ghibli or Khamsin for sure John : ) Fitting way to go.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Hi Citroenists,

    I am really having a battle with this power steering on the Xantia Wagon. I have had the rack in and out 3 times now and still no joy. I have re-sealed a replacement pinion valve to stop it leaking but I still havn't got any power assistance happening and it still blowing the feed hose off my hose joiner and leaving trails of LHM around the neighbourhood. So after trying 2 pinion valves, I though maybe the Ram has a big internal leak? But after testing, it appears to be sealing quite well while doing some hand pumping after emptying out all the lhm.

    The only thing I can think that I did differently when I replaced the bushes on the RAM in my Xantia Activa was that I primed the RAM with a nice charge of new LHM before I fitted it. Does anyone know if this is a required action when refitting the ram onto the rack?

    Any other suggestions on where to go next would be appreciated as well.

    Frustrated Ken

  20. #20
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Three times.... Phew. Hope something really obvious turns up soon!!!
    JohnW

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    Could you run it with reg valve open on low and turn the steering back and forth to get fluid in Ken as an idea?

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Could you run it with reg valve open on low and turn the steering back and forth to get fluid in Ken as an idea?
    Because it has a separate pumps for HP and Power Steering, anything you do on the HP side does not affect the power steering side. I have decided to work on replacing the supply pipe so I can get a strong double webbed rubber pipe section fitted.

    Ken

  23. #23
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    FWIW, years ago we fitted a steel reinforced flexible hose on the BX to slide over and bridge a failed section in a high pressure pipe that was almost impossible to remove. Silver solder was used for the jointing and the repair is fine a decade later.
    JohnW

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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Default Still not winning with the Power Steering

    Well it is time for an update. I am still not winning this Xantia war. I have had the rack in and out 3 times now with various pinion valves and the system is still almost unresponsive and unreliable.

    More to follow.

    Cheers, Ken

  25. #25
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    Well it is time for an update. I am still not winning this Xantia war. I have had the rack in and out 3 times now with various pinion valves and the system is still almost unresponsive and unreliable. More to follow. Cheers, Ken
    Bugger. Something is wrong (you know that...) but it's either very obscure indeed or staring you in the face. That sounds like a huge amount of work - any way of testing the rack outside the car?

    I'm presuming the various pivots are OK and allowing the steering mechanism to move freely? Is it different if the car is up on blocks with the suspension hanging free?

    Good luck. I can feel the pain from Perth!!
    JohnW

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