Starting the "new" traction engine
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Thread: Starting the "new" traction engine

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Starting the "new" traction engine

    Having a crack at getting the replacement engine going today, I think I have all the wiring in the right places a bit of fuel down the carby & all I'm getting is backfiring through the carby. Thoughts please, thanks Dave

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    Distributor (or dizzy drive timing gear) 180 degrees out? Plug leads incorrect?
    Last edited by Simon; 25th March 2018 at 04:46 PM.
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Distributor 180 degrees out? Plug leads incorrect?
    Like he said!
    If it is a slough Traction, the fix is as simple as turning the points cam 180 degrees. Then you do not have to swap all the leads or remove the dizzie! Remove the cap, rotor and points carrier plate. Then unscrew the central fixing screw of the cam and advance assembly. Lift , turn , relocate 180 degrees and reassemble!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Thanks Gerry & Simon, I have done as advised,
    Remove the cap, rotor and points carrier plate. Then unscrew the central fixing screw of the cam and advance assembly. Lift , turn , relocate 180 degrees and reassemble
    Not a thing now, thought the contacts were not adjusted right so checked, ok now but still not firing. I was using the starter button on the firewall to turn it over & that has now jammed on so walked away for today. cheers Dave
    Just a duckin' & a weavin'

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Have you set the firing point by inserting a pin into the flywheel through the bell housing? There is a place for a 6mm pin to be inserted on the left of the bell housing. You can tell which cylinder is on firing stroke by removing the rocker cover and noting which rockers are in balance. It will be either 1 or 4. In this position it will be at 8 degrees advance!
    With the ignition on do you get power across the points? Use a test lamp to ascertain this. Turn the distributor until the test lamp just goes out. Lock the 'dizzie' at this point. Does the coil fire a spark to ground when you move the rotor so that the points are just sparking?
    Does the rotor arm point to the contact on the distributor cap that feeds current to the lead on the cylinder that you have set in balance? If this is all correct now check the direction of rotor arm rotation and then that you have the leads connected in the correct firing order. 1,3,4,2.
    Given the above is correct and you have fuel it should now fire up!

    Cheers Gerry

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Gerry, Don't you want the distributor rotor to point towards the cylinder that does not have valves in balance? The cylinder with the valves in balance is between exhaust and intake strokes not at the finish of the compression stroke which is where you want the plug to fire. So if cylinder 1 is in balance, the rotor should be point towards the cylinder 4 spark plug wire and vice versa. Other advice is great.

    Cheers, Ken

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    I think Gerry said the rockers should be 'in balance' which means it is at compression / firing, as both valves are closed?
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    Remove all of the spark plugs, crank the engine with your hand over the #1 spark plug hole, when the air pressure moves your hand off the spark plug opening note where the distributor rotor is pointing. That is #1 TDC (as opposed to #4 TDC). Arrange the remaining spark plug wires in firing order sequence (1 3 4 2 ) moving clockwise around the cap. Then find the firing point for #1 using the pin in the flywheel.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    Gerry, Don't you want the distributor rotor to point towards the cylinder that does not have valves in balance? The cylinder with the valves in balance is between exhaust and intake strokes not at the finish of the compression stroke which is where you want the plug to fire. So if cylinder 1 is in balance, the rotor should be point towards the cylinder 4 spark plug wire and vice versa. Other advice is great.

    Cheers, Ken
    Ken ---- both valves closed ( i.e. in balance ) equals coming up to firing stroke on compression. Both valves have been fully closed from just after BDC. Ideally you want this to be number one cylinder. It is easy to find and align the rotor with number one lead, either by swapping the leads or rotating the distributor cam. With the pin in the flywheel it is at 8 degrees BTDC. However it is also easy to work off number four cylinder if this is the cylinder at 8deg. BTDC firing stroke.
    Argument has raged for years about which is number one cylinder! Is it water pump end or is it timing chain end?
    In the end it does not matter providing that the rotor points to the lead that runs to the cylinder that is about to fire ( i.e. valves both closed or as I put it --- in balance ).
    Last edited by gerrypro; 26th March 2018 at 09:08 AM.
    Cheers Gerry

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    On the 5 main bearing DS engines the plugs are numbered 1-4 from the flywheel (forward) end to the timing chain end (against the firewall). I assumed this configuration when I said the firing order was 1-3-4-2, but I think the firing order works out the same if the cylinders are numbered from the timing chain to the flywheel. Either way, an an easy way to find TDC end of compression is as I said earlier, to put your thumb over the spark plug hole.

    Incidentally, on the SM engine, the "balance" position is end of exhaust, beginning of intake, which is where you time the cams. This may be why some are confused when you refer to the balance position as end of compression.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    Incidentally, on the SM engine, the "balance" position is end of exhaust, beginning of intake, which is where you time the cams. This may be why some are confused when you refer to the balance position as end of compression.
    Surely that is the overlap position between exhaust and intake for scavenging purposes. The wilder the engine the more the period of overlap.
    Cheers Gerry

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Icon4 Citroen SM terminolgy from Citroen

    Gerry,

    In my defense, here is a screen grab from Citroen Manual 581-1 that talks about "in balance" being when the valves are in the overlap period between inlet and exhaust strokes. As we know from other discussions, many of these terms mean different things in different countries.

    So I think it is necessary to be very clear about what you mean when describing a technique.

    Starting the "new" traction engine-581-1-balance.jpg

    Regards, Ken

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    Point taken Ken. Obviously a confusion of terms!
    Cheers Gerry

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