Picking up a couple of ID19s.....how to move?
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Thread: Picking up a couple of ID19s.....how to move?

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    Default Picking up a couple of ID19s.....how to move?

    Ok............

    A little while ago, I was looking for a bit of help to identify build years for a couple of ID19s I've found a few hours west of Brisbane. They've been sitting in a paddock for (it varies, as the owners aren't all that sure) somewhere between 20 and 30 years. I'm expecting to find a LOT of rust when I finally move them but that's ok........

    I'm sitting here reading through the forum, so I thought I'd pick everyone's brains for ideas on how best to mooooove these babies. Obviously, I'll be checking to see if, by some miracle, the tyres might hold any air. With dead/dormant CXs, I usually jack them up and put small hardwood blocks in where the bump stops are. That always works a treat with the CXs but the ID19 set-up looks (from the schematics I've seen) completely different . Any ideas?

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    Incidentally, with regard to the rust, the owner said he got a bit keen a while back and thought he'd clean the inside out of one of them. He got rid of any rubbish that was on the floor, and then got the ol' vacuum cleaner out and had a go. Then he realised he was sucking up bits of floor (as well as the ground below it), and that's when he stopped. So yeah.......I'm not expecting any miracles. It even crossed my mind that I might have to sit a piece of plywood under the car to stop the insides falling through the open bottom of the car trailer on the trip home. But hey, it's all good!

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    A couple of tricks I learned helping move dead Ds out of Area 52:

    Get some hardwood doweling approximately 32-35mm in diameter. Cut four pieces about 30 or so mm long. Cut one 60-70mm long. The reason for the long one is on some cars, there was a spacer tube installed between the sphere and the cylinder on what is your driver side front. You may do well to take the dowel stock, a cheap miter box and saw with you when you recover the cars.

    If they're not rusted out, take a railroad spike or a piece of metal bar/square stock that will fit snugly- but not tight!- into the jacking points just behind the front wheels. Not the jack pegs near the center of the sills. You want it long enough to fit well down into the jack point and stick out at least 125mm. This will help with getting the cars jacked up IF the box sections of the frame aren't rusted through.

    A large drip pan will help with giving a surface the jack can ride while you're jacking the cars up. You can do the same with a large sheet of plywood. Basically you're just trying to keep the jack from slowly sinking into the ground.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Flat tray truck will move them no problems at all. If your going to trailer them. Get a trailer with long ramps and a good winch. NOT beaver tails or tilt trailers. I've found them a PITA. Take 4 bricks with you. Line the trailer up perfectly with the car.... chock all the trailer wheels and uncouple the trailer. Just lift the handle to release it from the towbar. Leave the safety chains hooked up incase it tries to escape.

    Now ... winch ... when the ID's front wheels hit the trailer ramps, your going to be climbing to the winch. What you have done is created a long flat climb for the ID onto the trailer, as the front wheels pass the trailer axles the trailer will slowly drop itself back down on the coupling... Don't forget to engage the coupling lock before driving off

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Awesome. Thank you very much, guys. That is EXACTLY the sort of advice I was looking for. I assume, Hot Rod Electric, that the dowel fits in under the spheres to hold the car aloft? I'm feeling reasonably confident that the box sections won't be toooooo bad.....it seems as the though the floors have pretty much been the centre for the corrosion activity, from what I can see. That's a GREAT idea with the jack, the bar, and plywood etc. Thank you! What size bar would you recommend to slide into the jacking points?

    Shane, my car trailer has one of those old hand-winches with a webbing strap and hook. The webbing has done a lot of work and is not going to be any good for winching a Citroen, although it's pulled a fair number in the past. But the winch itself works great. I'll buy a new strap for it. I always use a 2500kg strap as a safety strap (that's what I strap my cars to the trailer with), with one end on the front of the car and the other end on the drawbar of the trailer. Every few feet of progress with the winch sees me shorten that safety strap so that if anything goes pear-shaped, the winched car can't go too far. My trailer doesn't have a high rail at the front (specifically to cater for Citroens, lol), and it's not a long trailer, so I place chocks on the trailer just in front of the wheels and continually shift them as I go, just in case it decides it wants to make rapid forward progress of it's own. I wind the jockey wheel down so that, with no load on the trailer, there is still a slight uphill grade on the trailer deck. As the winched car reaches the pivot point, with chocks under all wheels everywhere, it gently drops onto the jockey wheel. Then I let the car roll forward just a little bit more to give me a touch more weight on the drawbar.

    Another thing you might be able to help me with, Shane........do you know if there's a lot of difference in front weight bias between a D and a CX? I usually find that, in order to get just the right amount of weight on the drawbar, a CX has to be a fair way back on my trailer, with the rear wheels only on the deck by a few inches.

    Cheers
    Steve

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarNut View Post
    Awesome. Thank you very much, guys. That is EXACTLY the sort of advice I was looking for. I assume, Hot Rod Electric, that the dowel fits in under the spheres to hold the car aloft? I'm feeling reasonably confident that the box sections won't be toooooo bad.....it seems as the though the floors have pretty much been the centre for the corrosion activity, from what I can see. That's a GREAT idea with the jack, the bar, and plywood etc. Thank you! What size bar would you recommend to slide into the jacking points?

    Shane, my car trailer has one of those old hand-winches with a webbing strap and hook. The webbing has done a lot of work and is not going to be any good for winching a Citroen, although it's pulled a fair number in the past. But the winch itself works great. I'll buy a new strap for it. I always use a 2500kg strap as a safety strap (that's what I strap my cars to the trailer with), with one end on the front of the car and the other end on the drawbar of the trailer. Every few feet of progress with the winch sees me shorten that safety strap so that if anything goes pear-shaped, the winched car can't go too far. My trailer doesn't have a high rail at the front (specifically to cater for Citroens, lol), and it's not a long trailer, so I place chocks on the trailer just in front of the wheels and continually shift them as I go, just in case it decides it wants to make rapid forward progress of it's own. I wind the jockey wheel down so that, with no load on the trailer, there is still a slight uphill grade on the trailer deck. As the winched car reaches the pivot point, with chocks under all wheels everywhere, it gently drops onto the jockey wheel. Then I let the car roll forward just a little bit more to give me a touch more weight on the drawbar.

    Another thing you might be able to help me with, Shane........do you know if there's a lot of difference in front weight bias between a D and a CX? I usually find that, in order to get just the right amount of weight on the drawbar, a CX has to be a fair way back on my trailer, with the rear wheels only on the deck by a few inches.

    Cheers
    Steve
    DS's will fill the trailer, so it will need to be pulled forwards as far as it will go. I hope he has a big trailer, as the DS has a bigger wheelbase than a big old chev impala CX's are enormously nose heavy. Much more so than the DS in my experience. I always err on the side of to much trailer nose weight rather than too little. I just watch the tow cars rear suspension ...

    The winch I have in my shed for pulling cars onto the ramps uses a strap.... I don't like it at all. They are only really for use on boat trailers that pull up the trailer dead center each time. Unless your pull is dead straight, I've found the strap always bunches up and folds over onto itself. it might pay to buy some normal winch cable. I've found it's really hard to pull a car from dead centre.

    seeya,
    shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 18th March 2018 at 11:25 AM.
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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Bring some large cardboard boxes and a shovel. Shake the cars vigorously and then shovel them into the boxes.
    Think Global - Ride on Spheres

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Bring some large cardboard boxes and a shovel. Shake the cars vigorously and then shovel them into the boxes.
    Now THAT sounds like a great idea, lol!!!!

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    Shane, the cable idea sounds like the go. Thanks for that mate.
    With the strap, I've always run another strap from one side of the car to the other, then put the hook of the winch strap over the middle of the second strap. My tie-down straps have those protective sleeves over them, and I place one of those where the hook goes around. Then I can slide the hook from side to side as required to avoid the bunching and folding of the strap as you describe. But yeah, the cable idea sounds MUCH better. And I'll make sure it's bit longer than the strap has been.
    Thanks for the info regarding relative nose-heaviness. If the Ds are less nose heavy than the CX, then I should be fine.
    My car trailer is nearing the end of it's useful life really. It was originally a horse float, so I was told by the previous owner, and was modified at some time in the dim dark distant past. I've had it for about ten years or so, and I've modified it further in that time, to suit my purposes, but it's done a LOT of work that I suspect other car trailers would never be expected to perform. It's had several Range Rovers on it over the years, and when you see the photos I'll take during the recovery of the ID19s, Shane, you will roll your eyes, lol. Last weekend, it carried a single hardwood garage (knocked down to wall sections)to the top of my mountain property, behind one of the aforementioned Range Rovers, up tracks that saw all four wheels of the Rangie spinning at various points. I had two tonnes of plate glass on it once, in a specially welded up frame so that they all stood on their ends. The frame of the trailer deck still bears the bent bearers from that little episode.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarNut View Post
    Awesome. Thank you very much, guys. That is EXACTLY the sort of advice I was looking for. I assume, Hot Rod Electric, that the dowel fits in under the spheres to hold the car aloft? I'm feeling reasonably confident that the box sections won't be toooooo bad.....it seems as the though the floors have pretty much been the centre for the corrosion activity, from what I can see. That's a GREAT idea with the jack, the bar, and plywood etc. Thank you! What size bar would you recommend to slide into the jacking points?

    Cheers
    Steve
    Hi Steve-

    You're correct on your assumption with the dowel fitting. I know someone actually makes polyurethane spacers, just can't remember who. Actually, you could do that too if you can find the appropriate diameter. I saw Wally do that at Area 52 and I was taken by surprise- such a simple solution to an aggravating problem!

    For the bar, we had actually found an old railway track spike. Not sure of the size, though. I'll venture a guess and say 19mm square. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to go to their D and measure the inside dimension of the jack point, please?
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    Do you want another one?Picking up a couple of ID19s.....how to move?-8fcc8515-7b03-406a-b123-d20404303465.jpg its on a farm at Barooga VIc
    dogboy likes this.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarNut View Post
    Shane, the cable idea sounds like the go. Thanks for that mate.
    With the strap, I've always run another strap from one side of the car to the other, then put the hook of the winch strap over the middle of the second strap. My tie-down straps have those protective sleeves over them, and I place one of those where the hook goes around. Then I can slide the hook from side to side as required to avoid the bunching and folding of the strap as you describe. But yeah, the cable idea sounds MUCH better. And I'll make sure it's bit longer than the strap has been.
    Thanks for the info regarding relative nose-heaviness. If the Ds are less nose heavy than the CX, then I should be fine.
    My car trailer is nearing the end of it's useful life really. It was originally a horse float, so I was told by the previous owner, and was modified at some time in the dim dark distant past. I've had it for about ten years or so, and I've modified it further in that time, to suit my purposes, but it's done a LOT of work that I suspect other car trailers would never be expected to perform. It's had several Range Rovers on it over the years, and when you see the photos I'll take during the recovery of the ID19s, Shane, you will roll your eyes, lol. Last weekend, it carried a single hardwood garage (knocked down to wall sections)to the top of my mountain property, behind one of the aforementioned Range Rovers, up tracks that saw all four wheels of the Rangie spinning at various points. I had two tonnes of plate glass on it once, in a specially welded up frame so that they all stood on their ends. The frame of the trailer deck still bears the bent bearers from that little episode.
    At least you got the winch to work. I tried tieing off between the suspension arms of a traction ... but still couldn't get the damn thing up unto the ramps without the belt winch bunching up (I struggle as if you use a long enough strap on the car to centre the winch pull.... they are then to long and you can't get the car up the ramps far enough ... ie: I'd only get the car 2/3rds of the way onto the trailer ... and run out of winch cable.

    Rangies ? they are way me capable than I am. I noticed a "short cut" that has been made by modified 4wds on the school run. I tried it last friday.... its so steep all I could see was the sky and the bonnet .... damn thing went straight up... I noticed today the tow hitch is all plugged with dirt when the distribution bars wedge in. Yes, so steep the towbar had hammered into the ground as I went up The poor car sure does get hammered for no good reason At least it didn't tip end for end You sure wouldn't want to roll one... they have all the roof integrity of a wet paper bag

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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    Thanks, Hotrodelectric........getting the cars up off the ground was one challenge I could forsee, but your suggestion sounds like it'll make things HEAPS easier, so yeah......I thank you.

    Robo, I'd grab that car in a heartbeat if I had the time to make the run down there to pick it up. As it is, I'm going to be pressed finding the time to pick the two up from up here in QLD. I wouldn't have gone LOOKING for an ID19, but I've known of these two for a few years now, and when I found out they were available, I took it as a 'sign" that I was meant to have them. I have NO IDEA when I'm going to get around to doing anything substantial to them, but I don't envisage that it'll be within the next couple of years. I will, however, be having a tinker with them to see if the engines still turn over, and I have no doubt that curiosity will get the better of me........I will HAVE to see if I can get them running. They are a car that I have admired and been drawn to since I was a boy. I used to read the road tests in my Dad's car mags and think "Wow, what a beautiful, amazing car that would be to own".
    About 17 years ago, I bought my first CX....the Prestige.....and subsequent CXs and GSs but, for me, reading the road tests of the DSs and IDs was where it all started for me.

    Shane, I think the old Rangies are under-rated something shocking. Mind you, there seems to be a growing interest in them, and it seems that the early two-doors are worth big money in good nick. I've got an '89 Classic that I use as my "tug truck" on the property. It's filthy dirty and got the odd dent here and there from various arguments with trees in the wet (it's black soil country, very steep in places with a lot of rock). I've also got another '89 that isn't running at the moment (fuel pump), and '88 (for parts), and a very nice '93 LSE, which is the long wheelbase model and quite rare. It's a lovely thing with Connelly hides (in great nick) and more rear legroom than you can shake a stick at. Spotted it on eBay "as traded" at a Brisbane car yard and "had to have it". It's had the air suspension bags removed but all the plumbing and height sensors etc are there still, tied up with cable ties and ready to have bags re-fitted. I pulled the radiator out the other week and took the tanks off to rod out the core. I just have to put the tanks back on and she's a goer again.
    The Rangie I use as a tug truck has been used as such for the past 9 years and the only real issue I've had was when I was trying to drag the car trailer up a steep incline at the other end of a spur that wasn't much wider than the Rangie. I was bouncing over rocks the size of watermelons when BANG!!! The chain in the transfer case let go and the whole rig shot backwards down onto the spur. How I never fell off the edge is beyond me, but it's at least 60 m down a 60deg incline on each side before you'd hit a tree substantial enough to impede your downward plummet, lol. That was back before I had spare parts, so it was a run back to civilisation to find another case, then I had to change it up on that spur........interesting times, and lots of swearing, but it's barely given me any trouble since :-).

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarNut View Post
    Thanks, Hotrodelectric........getting the cars up off the ground was one challenge I could forsee, but your suggestion sounds like it'll make things HEAPS easier, so yeah......I thank you.

    Robo, I'd grab that car in a heartbeat if I had the time to make the run down there to pick it up. As it is, I'm going to be pressed finding the time to pick the two up from up here in QLD. I wouldn't have gone LOOKING for an ID19, but I've known of these two for a few years now, and when I found out they were available, I took it as a 'sign" that I was meant to have them. I have NO IDEA when I'm going to get around to doing anything substantial to them, but I don't envisage that it'll be within the next couple of years. I will, however, be having a tinker with them to see if the engines still turn over, and I have no doubt that curiosity will get the better of me........I will HAVE to see if I can get them running. They are a car that I have admired and been drawn to since I was a boy. I used to read the road tests in my Dad's car mags and think "Wow, what a beautiful, amazing car that would be to own".
    About 17 years ago, I bought my first CX....the Prestige.....and subsequent CXs and GSs but, for me, reading the road tests of the DSs and IDs was where it all started for me.

    Shane, I think the old Rangies are under-rated something shocking. Mind you, there seems to be a growing interest in them, and it seems that the early two-doors are worth big money in good nick. I've got an '89 Classic that I use as my "tug truck" on the property. It's filthy dirty and got the odd dent here and there from various arguments with trees in the wet (it's black soil country, very steep in places with a lot of rock). I've also got another '89 that isn't running at the moment (fuel pump), and '88 (for parts), and a very nice '93 LSE, which is the long wheelbase model and quite rare. It's a lovely thing with Connelly hides (in great nick) and more rear legroom than you can shake a stick at. Spotted it on eBay "as traded" at a Brisbane car yard and "had to have it". It's had the air suspension bags removed but all the plumbing and height sensors etc are there still, tied up with cable ties and ready to have bags re-fitted. I pulled the radiator out the other week and took the tanks off to rod out the core. I just have to put the tanks back on and she's a goer again.
    The Rangie I use as a tug truck has been used as such for the past 9 years and the only real issue I've had was when I was trying to drag the car trailer up a steep incline at the other end of a spur that wasn't much wider than the Rangie. I was bouncing over rocks the size of watermelons when BANG!!! The chain in the transfer case let go and the whole rig shot backwards down onto the spur. How I never fell off the edge is beyond me, but it's at least 60 m down a 60deg incline on each side before you'd hit a tree substantial enough to impede your downward plummet, lol. That was back before I had spare parts, so it was a run back to civilisation to find another case, then I had to change it up on that spur........interesting times, and lots of swearing, but it's barely given me any trouble since :-).
    Grab all the ID's you can. Even if they are rusty. You can salvage all the fasteners from them ( M5 x .75 is hard to find).

    off topic ... put the gear driven transfer case in the rangies. Its indestructible if you don't let it run out of oil (disco 1's are good to wreck for them). I have two rangies with the borg warner transfer case ... one seized locked (and took out the 'cv joints), the other one died open .... Jump on aulro and do the check on the transfer case for the LSE. You want to keep the chain driven viscous borg warner in the LSE. it is WAY quieter. The trouble is it takes out the driveline when the viscous unit dies (as they are then locked all the time). All those Viscous units seem to have a limited life span. Look at all of the AWDs around. Just running slightly different tyres front and back will kill them.

    I'd love to get hold of an LSE .. more space in the back for the kids!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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