Torques for DS water pump and housing?
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Thread: Torques for DS water pump and housing?

  1. #1
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    Default Torques for DS water pump and housing?

    Can anyone advise?

    The later five bearing engines: what torque should be on the nuts holding the water pump 'back body' to the cylinder head? Haven't managed to find reference to a specific torque in the manuals, but given that (a) there is pressurised coolant flowing through it and (b) the engine hook is fixed to it, I'm kind of assuming it has to done up just right.

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    Two of the nuts end up sealed inside the water pump when that is fitted so, if the gasket leaks, I won't be able to tighten the back housing up after fitting the water pump itself.


    Related to this, what torque then needs to be on the nuts holding the water pump to it's 'back body'......

    Thanks
    Paul

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I do not think that a torque figure is given. I would advise ---- 'sensibly tight' and use an anti seize paste on the threads. It is important when tightening any casings together that a tightening pattern be used. Never just work around the casing from one nut to the adjacent nut. Skip two each time (or three, or more depending on the number of fasteners on a particular casing ) and work around until all nuts are tightened evenly. Then do it again as a check!
    I have a set of 'Stahwille' spanners that are just the right length to apply a proper torque to a nut using a normal firm hand. The same theory works if one chooses an appropriate ratchet and socket. Long handle spanners should be used with caution. Grip these spanners closer to the fastener being tightened.
    Last edited by gerrypro; 22nd January 2018 at 07:23 AM.
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    Cheers Gerry

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    Thanks Gerry. So far I have interpreted 'sensibly tight' as 28Nm Just wondering whether i have not been sensible enough.

    I'm really amazed that no figure is given as this is a fairly mission-critical part. there's lot's of advice about dry gaskets and pit-grew surfaces but nothing about how tight!

    Paul

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I guess you could always work on the theory that if it leaks once assembled then you could tighten a little more!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Won't be able to. the water pump bolts on over the front, covering two of the five bolts around it's circumference.

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    I’d definitely be giving the bolts and surfaces a coating of Hylomar. In fact I did mine with it.

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    Wisdom coming from the UK is that, as they are 8mm studs, aim to torque the nuts to between 18 and 22 ft/lbs.

    The manual says fit the gaskets dry, but as they are for the cooling system, I gave both sides of the gasket between housing and cylinder head a thin coat of hylomar blue. I'm pl;annoying to do the same for the gasket between pump and housing.

    The long studs in the water pump housing: I used a 'lock'n'seal' product on these to hold them securely and (for the studs that go into the wet area of the housing) to prevent leaks through the threads.

    Paul

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    Sorry Paul, 18 to 22 lbf ft (which is around the 30 Nm is too high for a 8mm bolt especially in aluminium). I prefer gerrypro's method for smaller diameter bolts/nuts and in using gerrypro's method you will not attain 30 Nm - maybe 25 at the most. Your lower figure should be tops / maximum. And, don't worry about leaking through the threads, that's what the gasket does.
    Regards,
    John

    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    Wisdom coming from the UK is that, as they are 8mm studs, aim to torque the nuts to between 18 and 22 ft/lbs.

    The manual says fit the gaskets dry, but as they are for the cooling system, I gave both sides of the gasket between housing and cylinder head a thin coat of hylomar blue. I'm pl;annoying to do the same for the gasket between pump and housing.

    The long studs in the water pump housing: I used a 'lock'n'seal' product on these to hold them securely and (for the studs that go into the wet area of the housing) to prevent leaks through the threads.

    Paul

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    If the bolt snaps, this was too tight.

    If using HT bolts, if the thread strips in the block, this was too tight

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    Thanks John (and Driven ).

    There's no monopoly on wisdom. The fixings are steel nuts. And while those nuts fix onto steel 8mm studs, the studs are in aluminium - so i can see there is a risk of over-tightening and pulling the studs out. There are only five of them, so I did gradually tighten them down using 'opposites' - as you would fixing wheel nuts. I might back them off and then re-tighten to a lesser torque, or leave well alone!

    Manual says fit the gaskets dry - but I put a thin smear of Hylomar blue on both gasket faces.

    Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    If the bolt snaps, this was too tight.

    If using HT bolts, if the thread strips in the block, this was too tight
    Like testing matches???

    One of the water pump or mount studs is in the water jacket. I forget which one, but the thread needs some sealant or it will weep. Same with 4 of the bolts/setscrews that hold the intake tubes onto an EF head.

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    Yes. One, maybe two studs (for the pump housing) screw into the water jacket. One of the long studs that then screws into the pump housing is also tapped through into the housing water space. I've used Loctite 'Lock and seal' on these....and a bit of Hylomar Blue for good measure.

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    Sorry Paul, 18 to 22 lbf ft (which is around the 30 Nm is too high for a 8mm bolt especially in aluminium). I prefer gerrypro's method for smaller diameter bolts/nuts and in using gerrypro's method you will not attain 30 Nm - maybe 25 at the most. Your lower figure should be tops / maximum. And, don't worry about leaking through the threads, that's what the gasket does.
    Regards,
    John
    Just recently completed this task for a friend. No leaks --no problems using the method I outlined previously!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Thanks Gerry. As a method, it's open to interpretation. I think everyone will have their own view on what constitutes 'sensibly tight', the 'right' length of a spanner and a 'firm hand' - which is way I was hoping Citroen might have put a figure to it.

    As per previous post: once the water pump is bolted over the housing, it won't be possible to re-tighten all the nuts if there is any weeping. I've gone for 28Nm, ironically because it felt 'sensibly' tight, but agree that I wouldn't want to push my luck by going any tighter. Thanks for reining me in. i don't know my own strength sometimes

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I guess my method is all about touch feel and sensitivity!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Well after all that, worrying about the torque on the water pump bolts was a waste of time!


    A combination of the need to fit nuts to long ended studs plus the the pulley on the pump........ stopped me fitted a torque wrench to the nuts on four out of the five studs! So I followed Gerrypro's advice and went for 'sensibly tight' after all!

    Paul

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    You can get torque wrenches with interchangeable ends that fit into all kinds of places that can't be reached by a conventional socket-type tool.

    Roger

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    Paul,

    I was going to suggest earlier when you were not comfortable as to what sensibly tight meant was to experiment with the torque wrench and some left over / spare nuts and bolts. That is (say) 6, 8 and 10 mm diameter threads [use varying metal grades thread sizes if available and torque them to destruction. The safe torque for a failed bolt is to use the 75% torque of the failed torque.

    Knowing that torque figure, you may experiment using "gerrypro's sensibly tight" method to attain that 75% torque.

    With the bolt torqued up pick up a spanner and try to torque it up further.

    You will very quickly feel what is sensibly tight when you strip a few if you use a long moment arm. You will need to reduce the moment arm as the thread size reduces by holding the spanner closer to the turning / pivot point.

    By holding the spanner closer to the pivot, you will not strip the threads.

    Regards,

    John

    Torque them

    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    Well after all that, worrying about the torque on the water pump bolts was a waste of time!


    A combination of the need to fit nuts to long ended studs plus the the pulley on the pump........ stopped me fitted a torque wrench to the nuts on four out of the five studs! So I followed Gerrypro's advice and went for 'sensibly tight' after all!

    Paul
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