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Thread: The total disaster that is Inchcape and Citroen Australia

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    I wouldnt worry about your right to freedom of speech, I don’t think it actually exists!

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    Btw an odd anecdote, whilst suffering mega gastro in Sri Lanka after foolishly drinking tap water in a small country town and ending up seeking proper medicine in Colombo at the hospital, wife in tears as I had ruined our holiday, the doctor threw this one out there saying, “ I felt sorry for myself when I had no shoes, until I saw a man who had no legs”.
    My wife contracted dysentery in India whilst travelling overland to Europe. It was eventually diagnosed and treated in Austria where we worked in a ski resort. The plus point is that it is the easiest way to lose weight without willpower, diets or expensive treatments. I found it was "mentally contagious" in that it was giving me the shits as we travelled the world, toilet by toilet.

    John
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    There is quite a lot of useful information on the ACCC's website regarding the Australian Consumer Laws (ACL) and consumer guarantees. You really have to wade through that to get a good sense of where the rights and obligations begin and end, but much of it will come down to what is quite subjective. What is a 'reasonable expectation' of durability, reliability and treatment for repairs. John Cadogan has certainly latched onto this area in the last few years, but his main business is car broking and some subscriber services.

    The ACCC's new car industry report does make the point that many franchised dealers are in fact often the meat in the sambo between their their ACL obligations to the consumer and their contractual obligations to the manufacturer/importer (therefore do what manufacture requires - deflect, do not fix in some documented cases.). The final version of their report was issued mid-December should anyone be keen for a long read. There are also shorter guides for the industry and consumers, which are both worth reading as they do give some more practical guidance.

    If the ACCC chose to act on any given complaint, and they are now more interested in the car industry than they have been, it would be ACCC money funding the action, not the consumer's. Lodging a complaint with ACCC or Fair Trading (NSW) doesn't actually launch any kind of legal action that will cost the consumer legal fees. It's more likely to be resolved some other way before it even gets to a mediation session, let alone seeing the inside of a court. The ACCC may not even do anything or make any order unless it saw a pattern of behaviour as it had with Holden and most recently insurance products (rim, gap) sold via dealers.

    It's fairly obvious the current situation is one where PCA and the dealer do not want to commit until the factory says OK for fear of wearing an expensive part themselves. While we can probably all see that as understandable, it's not giving the best outcome for the owner with a vehicle that is not working as it should. The story does draw attention to how changes to the dealer network in Sydney in particular has been less that ideal so far. More importantly, particularly for a brand in the doldrums, there seems to be a need to somehow consider shifting the service/back-end balance from strict PSA technical process compliance more in favour of customer service. There is a real risk some otherwise happy owners might not stay with the brand when it comes time to trade if they judge this type of situation as simply too difficult.

    Hopefully, it will be fixed soon.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I think, perhaps, you missed my meaning.

    I was eluding to the content, which may be considered as besmirching the name of the distributor being discussed.
    It's all about what a REASONABLE MAN ie Joe Average would expect.
    With internet access and facetime etc etc etc..................
    They can organise parts next day (France to Au), shipping however, might be restricted to available flights/cargo boats.

    So the intelligent thing is to cannibalise a car in stock and shut the customer up.

    Pictures are uploaded here within a minute (notwithstanding our access issue).
    All it takes to satisfy the customer is: it's all approved, part arriving approx within 2/3 weeks.
    Even if that is crap...................the customer is happy.

    Once there is someone stating repairs took weeks without apparent reason the word gets out.

    Mud sticks.

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    The vehicle was presented for a warranty claim on 16th Jan 2018, as I understand.

    And car remains drivable , for now, make your own mind up if waiting 8 working days so far warrants a complaint the ACA.

    I don't believe the delay is parts, but rather authorization from the French manufacturer to proceed. Apparently the claim is in excess of Australian dollar threshold for warranty claim authorization.

    However, I agree that it would be better if Citroen France acted more promptly in processing the authorization.

    I'm guessing, like any big business , Citroen has a process for warranty approvals, and "you can't beat the system"

    But I do wish Pete, a timely resolution next week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego View Post
    It's all about what a REASONABLE MAN ie Joe Average would expect.
    With internet access and facetime etc etc etc..................
    They can organise parts next day (France to Au), shipping however, might be restricted to available flights/cargo boats.

    So the intelligent thing is to cannibalise a car in stock and shut the customer up.

    Pictures are uploaded here within a minute (notwithstanding our access issue).
    All it takes to satisfy the customer is: it's all approved, part arriving approx within 2/3 weeks.
    Even if that is crap...................the customer is happy.

    Once there is someone stating repairs took weeks without apparent reason the word gets out.

    Mud sticks.
    Within the first week of ownership of our 308 it was noticed that the gear lever surround kept lifting up from the console.

    The dealer checked for supply of a new part but there wasn't one in the country.

    The solution was pretty easy though - they just removed one from a display car in the showroom and swapped it with the one from our car. No-one was going to notice the display car because the gear lever wasn't being moved while on display and we went away happy campers. Easy Peasy !

    Cheers

    Justin
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    I heard today that Sydney City Peugeot/CitroŽn has had its contract extended by a couple of months - servicing presumably, but they'd probably love to sell you a new car as well.
    Regards,

    Simon

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    I wonder how Diesel Pete is getting along with his warranty work ?
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


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    Hanging out your dirty washing on a public forum is not going to help your cause of achieving greater PSA dealer network support! See comments!

    Peugeot boss: ?We want to do better?

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    That was typical sales talk, and from Peugeot. It's Citroen that has been damaged in Sydney.

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    [sigh] I just found this thread.

    My C4 Picasso is going in to one of the new dealers for a couple of significant warranty issues this week: Replacing the sunroof blind and a cracked rear spoiler.

    Fingers crossed that I don't have the same dramas as diesel pete. Both of these issues are well documented both here and in Europe.

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    Hanging out your dirty washing on a public forum is not going to help your cause of achieving greater PSA dealer network support! See comments!

    Peugeot boss: ?We want to do better?



    Perhaps Ms Poelmann would do well to visit Continental Motors, reassess a little decision and join a few very large dots.

    Last edited by forumnoreason; 3rd February 2018 at 10:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I wonder how Diesel Pete is getting along with his warranty work ?
    Not well, I'm afraid.

    PCA finally approved the warranty repair late on Thursday. They emailed me to advise. Sydney City ordered the part and it arrived Friday so we took the car over and they installed it.

    We picked the car up around 3pm and not more than 2km down the road the same engine fault came up on the dashboard. So we drove it right back. They looked at it and performed a reset (error code history or something) and we drove off again. About half way home the error went off again. Phoned them up, they said bring it back Monday.

    We drove the car today and the km countdown started up again, first warning was at 1,100km and is now down to 950km.

    We've made 4 return trips to the dealer now. The time wasted and inconvenience is quite depressing. I guess some may consider this a first world problem and maybe it is. But as a busy family where everyone works or is at school, we need the car every day and just can't afford the amount of time this is taking. I assume now that PCA has approved it as a warranty repair we may be able to get a loan car? But whatever, I'm over it.
    Last edited by diesel pete; 3rd February 2018 at 11:14 PM.

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    Interesting that even Continentals diagnosis appears to have been incorrect.

    Sounds like you need to carry a laptop in the car to reset every 1000km's until this is resolved.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    Interesting that even Continentals diagnosis appears to have been incorrect.

    Sounds like you need to carry a laptop in the car to reset every 1000km's until this is resolved.

    Cheers

    Justin
    Hi Justin,

    I think the initial diagnosis was correct - Sydney City confirmed it in connected mode. My guess is that the repair has not been done correctly or perhaps the new part is also faulty.

    I've searched online and have found that this is a known problem with C4 Grand Picasso and Cactus. The adblue tank is a plastic part known to fail. The issue is that the car cannot detect the presence of adblue and therefore will refuse to start after a specified number of kilometres to ensure the car does not breach emission standards. The fix is to replace the adblue tank, the pump/injector and the level sensor.

    From the paperwork given to me by Sydney City Citroen after the repair on Friday, it only lists the tank. The pump and the level sensor may be part of the tank but the paperwork doesn't say so and there is no descriptive text of the work done. I don't know how experienced Sydney City are with repairs so maybe it was not done correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    Interesting that even Continentals diagnosis appears to have been incorrect.
    Sounds like you need to carry a laptop in the car to reset every 1000km's until this is resolved.
    Cheers
    Justin
    Hi
    That comment is amusing but really not very funny. And it is the reason why these cars will never sell to a wider public. They, like diesel pete, just do not have the time or inclination to persist with it in today's busy world.

    The problem with PSA products seems to be that these problems "never happened before" to cars that have been around for years. The bloody dealers and the factory just do not give a sh*t about it and so the customers walk away.
    Jaahn
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    Even more reason to ditch diesel. Too many ancillaries to deal with IMO.
    I donít need better than sub 6L/100 on the THP.


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    I wouldn’t have a clue but if your car is spitting out information that is coming from the computer then what are the chances the computer has a tiny crazy glitch and is itself the problem and not the things it is monitoring?

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    Here is a short clip of the fault. It appears on start-up and then repeats regularly:
    https://youtu.be/nxHsEP7jbM0


    And here are a few photos from underneath the car. Given that this is a brand new adblue tank, I am surprised that it's covered in what I assume is urea, i.e. the white scale. This is not dirt. And some of it is on the right hand suspension spring. I've read that this substance is corrosive to metal.


    The total disaster that is Inchcape and Citroen Australia-img_3942.jpg The total disaster that is Inchcape and Citroen Australia-img_3945.jpg The total disaster that is Inchcape and Citroen Australia-img_3947.jpg

    I took the adblue cap off inside the car and I can see fluid inside the tank so it's not empty, which makes me wonder where this is coming from. Perhaps the injector outside the tank?

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    Default The total disaster that is Inchcape and Citroen Australia

    The first thing that comes to mind Is a faulty sensor.
    That isnít some sort of skin crudely applied is it?.

    Oh and in this voltage driven world we now inhabit, itís not uncommon for a new battery to fix inexplicable faults so exactly how old is it?.

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    Last edited by Nagaman; 4th February 2018 at 10:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    I wouldn’t have a clue but if your car is spitting out information that is coming from the computer then what are the chances the computer has a tiny crazy glitch and is itself the problem and not the things it is monitoring?
    Yes, I guess it is possible. The C4GP certainly has a lot of computer technology in it. Some of the safety features are a virtual nanny state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    The first thing that comes to mind Is a faulty sensor.
    That isn’t some sort of skin crudely applied is it?.

    Oh and in this voltage driven world we now inhabit, it’s not uncommon for a new battery to fix inexplicable faults so exactly how old is it?.

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    No, it's not a skin. It's a crystal-like substance and I can scrape it off the tank with my finger. I saw a bit of the same substance around the base of the cap inside the car which I guess would be a bit of splash when they filled the tank (the cap is under the right-hand third-row seat). So I'm pretty sure this is how the urea liquid goes when dry.

    The battery is original. The car is about 18 months old, first registered Sep 2016.

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    Default The total disaster that is Inchcape and Citroen Australia

    Surely a sensor fault is the most likely.....or Ďinitialisingí ?


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    So it looks like it overflowed when they filled it.....perhaps in too much of a hurry.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    Surely a sensor fault is the most likely.....or ‘initialising’ ?


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    That's what I was thinking. A Citroen owner who posted in a UK forum said the tank, sensor and pump/injector were replaced in his C4GP and the problem was solved. My tank was replaced but I don't know if the other components are a standard part of the kit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel pete View Post
    That's what I was thinking. A Citroen owner who posted in a UK forum said the tank, sensor and pump/injector were replaced in his C4GP and the problem was solved. My tank was replaced but I don't know if the other components are a standard part of the kit.
    Iím no tech wizard, but is there a correct initialising process that must be adhered to, possible requiring a French Connection too?.


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