DS Aftermarket 3 pulley waterpump
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Thread: DS Aftermarket 3 pulley waterpump

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Default DS Aftermarket 3 pulley waterpump

    Hi all - are these available as a fully remanufactured part....?
    All I can seem to find are rebuilt ones...
    Many thanks,
    Mark...

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi all - are these available as a fully remanufactured part....?
    All I can seem to find are rebuilt ones...
    Many thanks,
    Mark...
    Hi Mark,
    CitroenDS.net show a 3 pulley A/C water pump, no mention that it is rebuilt or that it is on exchange - might be worth an email to confirm. Hard to tell from the image but I can't see any evidence of pitting/corrosion, looks new?
    https://en.shop.citroends.net/water-...om-051973.html

    I've recently had one rebuilt by Citroen Classics on exchange. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Citroen Classics UK
    Not only are the water pump pulleys different for models with air conditioning, but the bearing inside the pump is also twice the size of a standard one. This allows it to withstand the extra strain of driving the A/C compressor.
    Cheers
    Chris
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    Just make sure the end of shaft is level with impeller;cheap repros.where it is not level have a habit of coming off,Andy.

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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Hi Chris and Andy,
    Many thanks for your replies.
    There is a big difference in price, my guess the link you kindly provided Chris would be rebuilt but I'll send an email and find out.
    I have a number of old three pulley pumps here but they don't look any different from the outside..? Did three pulley pumps with the smaller bearings exist too or are all three bearing pumps the larger bearing type?
    Many thanks in advance,
    Mark...

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Chris and Andy,
    Many thanks for your replies.
    There is a big difference in price, my guess the link you kindly provided Chris would be rebuilt but I'll send an email and find out.
    I have a number of old three pulley pumps here but they don't look any different from the outside..? Did three pulley pumps with the smaller bearings exist too or are all three bearing pumps the larger bearing type?
    Many thanks in advance,
    Mark...
    Maybe a question for Darrin, he has reconditioned both 2 and 3 pulley pumps. . .
    Only criticism I have is he paints the pump black, I'll probably try and clean it and hit it with some silver

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Unless the water pump has been modified, both the three groove and the two groove pumps use identical bearings and seals. The front bearing is a 6301 (12mm x 37mm), the rear is a 6201 (12mm x 32mm). I have seen pump housings modified to use a double-row angular contact bearing at the front. This requires boring the front of the housing and shortening the shaft spacer a corresponding amount. The three groove pulley is pressed on. The only way I found to remove it without damage is to drill and tap the thick part of the hub to something like M6 and use a puller. Once the pulley is removed, you can press out the shaft. When reassembling, be sure to put a ball bearing (or some other spacer) under the impeller or it will shatter when you press it back into the housing.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    61DS19 LHM BVH (son's); 67DS21 BVH; 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM EFI (Megasquirt); 73SM 3.0 (other son's)

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    For what it's worth, a standard 6301 bearing has a 900lb static and a 2000lb dynamic load, so it is well able to handle the A/C belt load as long as the seal doesn't leak and fill the bearing with water...
    Cheers,
    John T.

    61DS19 LHM BVH (son's); 67DS21 BVH; 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM EFI (Megasquirt); 73SM 3.0 (other son's)

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    I split a short length of water pipe and then you can sit the 2 'C' sections on a bearing puller plate and the boss of the pulley rests on the pipe. That way, you can press the shaft out of the pulley and not place any load on the pulley, just the back of the boss. If you try to press against the back of the pulley wheel, it collapses as it's only pressed metal riveted on as an extra.

    Are you chasing a 3 row pulley Mark?

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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    Unless the water pump has been modified, both the three groove and the two groove pumps use identical bearings and seals. The front bearing is a 6301 (12mm x 37mm), the rear is a 6201 (12mm x 32mm). I have seen pump housings modified to use a double-row angular contact bearing at the front. This requires boring the front of the housing and shortening the shaft spacer a corresponding amount. The three groove pulley is pressed on. The only way I found to remove it without damage is to drill and tap the thick part of the hub to something like M6 and use a puller. Once the pulley is removed, you can press out the shaft. When reassembling, be sure to put a ball bearing (or some other spacer) under the impeller or it will shatter when you press it back into the housing.
    That's REAL information! Thanks. Do you happen to have similar data for the bearings in a CX water pump? I've nearly finished modifying mine to take a two-groove AC pulley system to match that on the Sanden compressor, as I can't stop it squealing without what seems like ridiculous tension on the AC belt. I reckon there is about a 5 to 1 or 10 to 1 mechanical advantage regarding load on the bearings, given the length of the water pump shaft from bearings to the AC pulley end.

    Not meaning to hijack......
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    JohnW

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    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi John,

    While I might be wrong, but I believe that the bearings in the AC DS water pump were larger. Australia went through lots of pumps, both types.

    Its a long time ago now, but we could buy the components for the DS water pump straight from Citroen......They were unlisted part numbers, and the AC parts were mostly different numbers except for the seal and impeller.

    Best regards,

    Greg
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    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Hi Greg,

    I know from rebuilding probably a dozen myself over the years that (at least for the USA) the bearings are the same whether Aircon or not. Possibly OZ had a different setup, but it would surprise me. Why would export models to OZ have an upgrade denied to the USA? FWIW, I engineered a solution to the seal problem using a 5/8 inch type 58 seal. So far (and some of them have 80K miles or more) there have been zero failures, with a plain old 6301 at the front.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    61DS19 LHM BVH (son's); 67DS21 BVH; 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM EFI (Megasquirt); 73SM 3.0 (other son's)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    That's REAL information! Thanks. Do you happen to have similar data for the bearings in a CX water pump? I've nearly finished modifying mine to take a two-groove AC pulley system to match that on the Sanden compressor, as I can't stop it squealing without what seems like ridiculous tension on the AC belt. I reckon there is about a 5 to 1 or 10 to 1 mechanical advantage regarding load on the bearings, given the length of the water pump shaft from bearings to the AC pulley end.

    Not meaning to hijack......
    Hi John,

    We didn't get many CX's here in the states, so I never had the occasion to rebuild a CX water pump, sorry.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    61DS19 LHM BVH (son's); 67DS21 BVH; 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM EFI (Megasquirt); 73SM 3.0 (other son's)

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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    Hi John, We didn't get many CX's here in the states, so I never had the occasion to rebuild a CX water pump, sorry.
    Very few indeed as I understand it! Thanks anyway. My double belt modification will keep the tension and forces down anyway. I hate over-tight belts.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    Citroën CX Pallas 1980

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    As John mentioned the 'standard' bearings work just fine for both AC and non AC equipped cars. Failure of the factory units bearings was always caused by the water seal used - a steel stationary unit with a rotating carbon shaft seal. Over time the steel stationary unit would 'pit' allowing water to creep down the shaft and screw up the shaft bearings. OTOH most pumps got replaced just due to the water leakage prior to that occurring.

    Like John I have also rebuilt, over the years, a number of those pumps using a modified seal I sourced from a local supply house. Like the one John mentioned the ones I use have a ceramic stationary seal. Far better than what was originally used by the factory. Additionally the Spanish made replacement pumps - at least the ones I am aware of - also use a ceramic seal. My own DS 21 (72) has a bit over 140,000 miles on its pump with that replacement seal system. Nary a problem.

    As to replacement 3 pulley units. AFAIK not available. However with the exception of the pulley, both pumps are identical, it would not be difficult for a decent machine shop to take the pulley off one of the aftermarket units and put the 3 groove unit on the shaft.

    Steve

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