2CV Ticking
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Thread: 2CV Ticking

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! pottsy's Avatar
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    Default 2CV Ticking

    OK, maybe I'm paranoid but i'm running out of time to get this thing right for NZ.

    I'm not sure whether I should be worried or simply ignore this. The motor is running sweetly but has a loud tick which varies in time with engine revs.

    Compressions are 140psi cold. I've set, and reset, the rocker clearances a couple of times now. They are definitely on 0.2mm as specified from a number of sources. I note that some sources suggest 0.25mm on the exhaust, and have reasons for it, but 2CViking says 0.2mm on all four and I trust his Danish/French/Aussie brand of common sense.

    The exhaust joints have all been re-checked and re-sealed with Maniseal and tightened up. They are not leaking as far as I can tell.

    I had an issue with the LH exhaust manifold gasket where the studs had loosened and blown part of the gasket out. This is now fixed and sealed (with a new gasket and more Maniseal)

    I read that overtightening of the rocker covers (They called them jelly moulds which amuses me) may cause moving bits to knock politely on the inside of the aforesaid mould, but there are no marks on either cover to suggest this, and a trial fit with a bit of cardboard inside seems to indicate plenty of clearance. In any case I've re-fitted these and set the nuts to 5 foot pounds as specified. Also checked head stud torques while I had them exposed and they're all on spec as well.

    Timing appears to be spot on. My aging ears can detect no pinging issues and the motor chortles along quite well, just ticks.

    The Tick appears to be from around the middle of the motor. Can't pin it down any closer with a tube type stethoscope or a big screwdriver against the ear. Youngest Son (younger ears) concurred with the possible location.

    Oh, and the Tick is present from a cold start to a warm idle after a run. Doesn't seem to be affected by engine temp. A run out to Healesville yesterday in the heat saw the engine oil temp reach 95C on the (admittedly cheap) gauge but motor still pulled well and strongly.

    So Gurus. Should I be worried?

    Anyone got any ideas where I should look now?

    Are these motors prone to broken rings and/or wearing little end bushes? (These latter I can suss out by dismantling but I REALLY don't want to go that far at this time)

    I stress that it's not a Knock such as one would expect with bottom end wear. The motor revs well and relatively smoothly. It's just a loud Tick.

    I await feedback with anticipation.

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    Cheers, Pottsy.
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    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Default

    cracked or broken valve springs given there is no dizzie and not much spinning on a 2cv you don't have a lot of options. Have you tried dropping the fan belt to see if the ticking is still there .

    seeya
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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! pottsy's Avatar
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    Good thoughts Shane. Valve springs certainly look OK, and in any case I'd expect such a failure to be louder on one side only, and the Tick appears central.

    I guess the belt is next, will let you know.

    Cheers, Pottsy.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2006 307 Auto 5 Door ("Spike" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  4. #4
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    Just drive it until it's wheels fall off.
    Gricey rebuilt an engine for me in about 2001, it had a clear knocking sound, like the big end was on the way out...
    I have rev'd the ( . ) ( .)'s off it all over the country for 16 years with all sorts of modifications and it has been great!
    Although it is now loosing oil faster than I can fill it up, so time for a replacement.
    Enjoy!

  5. #5
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    Does the tick change with clutch depression , and when you do the belt , take off the points cover , I seem to remember a thin metal plate in there that could rub on the points ,

    A tubular stethoscope is the best you can do,,, and should give a good indication of the noise

    I imagine the little end would be more of a rap

    Cam gear play , that cant happen ??

  6. #6
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    Would it be prudent to run a 0/20 oil , then a 20/50 , and check the difference

    Keeping the used oil of course,
    then making up your own secret formula to suit your engine at a later date

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Ahh - you could always use the magic of Nulon E10. Wonderful stuff for noisy old engines.

    Cheers, Ken

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    Also you can check the pushrod lift for specification

  9. #9
    JBN
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    I agree with Harley. I have ticking in my daily driver 2CV. But it starts first time every day, gets seriously flogged wherever it goes and when I return to wherever I park it, it has the funny smile, waiting for another flogging. Drive it like you hate it, they are born masochists.

    In the worst case scenario, there is probably NO other vehicle of that age that has anywhere near the supply of spare parts available. If you had the money, you could walk into Der Franzose or Club Cassis and come out with all the bits and pieces to build a new one (unless you wanted it RHD in which case there are no RHD clutch cables currently available).

    Get it over to NZ, open a farm gate around milking time and round up the cattle, driving them across ploughed fields. That is what the car was designed to do.

    Get yourself a spare accelerator cable for the odd time that the ticking stops. Leave it permanently in the boot of your car. Sadly the choke cable is a very poor substitute as it has about a 1000 rpm range.

    John

    PS: The engine design is very old. An "old" oil like the original Castrol GTX is far better for it than modern oils that are built for completely different componentry. In Germany they use Classic 20W/50 oils or Classic 30 SAE oil as these oils are similar to the oils for which the engines were designed.
    Last edited by JBN; 28th December 2017 at 09:27 PM.

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    Hi Pottsy,

    How confident are you in the valve clearances? I had quite a frustrating time when the Dyane first arrived removing similar ticking noise which turned out to be the exhaust valve clearances. From memory, different manuals quote different clearances - what values did you use?

    Cheers,
    Andrew
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    When you put the engine together you did as a matter of course check the gudgeon pin fit, did you not?
    Cheers Gerry

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    Hi guys, thanks for all the thoughts.

    Gerry, the motor is the last part of the car that I haven't had apart or otherwise checked, other than running it. I've been reluctant to do any major dismantling as the time is fast approaching when it needs to do its thing around the Shakies.

    Andrew, I'm very confident that the clearances are correct. An 8 thou (0.203mm) feeler gauge is a firm sliding fit in each of the gaps. These were set on each rocker with its "opposite number" fully open, as described in numerous guides.

    I've changed the oil and filter (Penrite HPR30 and a Z96) to see if a new lot of lubricant will make a difference. Once I get back on the road I'll give the motor the Nulon treatment. I use this additive as a matter of routine on my Classics and am a huge fan. Just haven't got any on the shelf at present.

    I'm leaning towards the "drive it regardless" approach. It's had various rattles and ticks that have not alarmed me so far and performed faultlessly over the Cup weekend run of 1000+ miles. Incidentally, I visited a shop in Braidwood on that trip. The Purveyor espied Gaston parked out front as I perused his models (cars, not that, you dirty minded lot!) and was quick to tell me about his Loony next door neighbour who had supercharged and injected his example. You, Harley, I assumed?

    Anyway, I'm having a crack at re-adjusting the 4th gear selector fork in situ before I put the mudguards back on and drive the Beast again. Wish me luck!

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Last edited by pottsy; 29th December 2017 at 12:54 PM.
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    2006 307 Auto 5 Door ("Spike" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  13. #13
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    Hi Pottsy,

    from memory ... and it was a few years (and beers) ago, I actually closed up the exhaust valves a smidgen further to quieten them down. For what it is worth, the copy of Haynes on my desk gives a range of 0.15-0.2 cold.

    There are not many things in a 2cv engine, and even fewer things that "tick".

    Cheers,
    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '71? Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    Hi Pottsy, sorry for changing the subject but where did you fit your Temp Sender, I;m thinking about fitting one
    Woody

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    Hi Pottsy
    A suggestion. Ticking is often associated with tappets ! There may be other things too but ! the valve gear starts in the center and goes out to the valves with a couple of 'joins' to tick.
    In older motors of the old style, the rockers can wear a bit 'hollow' where they meet the valve head and the valve head can get a bit rounded. Then the flat feeler gauge may not truly show the clearance as it 'bridges' the hollow and the hump. Try setting them to say 6 thou and see what that does to the noise.

    No change then that is not the problem. There is a method using a dial gauge to do them exactly but you can also use the adjuster screw as you can find the pitch and then after nipping them up, back off by the calculated angle for the clearance.
    http://jeepdraw.com/images/ADJUSTING...HN_GIBBINS.pdf
    Jaahn
    PS If the noise is a little end, then ignore it as they make a noise with very little extra clearance in any motor, but will not usually cause any problem at all for normal use.
    Last edited by jaahn; 29th December 2017 at 03:30 PM.

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    I wonder what the thread type is on the rocker adjustment , so we can look up the pitch

    nice method

  17. #17
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    The Citroen parts books are quite good in giving dimensions and thread pitch etc.. The lock nut size and pitch will tell you if it's not otherwise shown. Or measure the pitch with a thread gauge. If it's, say, 1.5, then it moves 1.5mm per full turn.

    My initial thought when seeing the thread title was ... A beumb!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian woodcock View Post
    Hi Pottsy, sorry for changing the subject but where did you fit your Temp Sender, I;m thinking about fitting one
    Woody
    Woody, I tossed around quite a few ideas before finally plumping for the oil pressure relief valve "dome".

    I looked at the oil filter housing but there's just not enough meat anywhere on it and the passages through it would be partially blocked by the sender, less than desirable I reckon.

    I'd already made an adapter for the oil pressure switch together with the oil pressure gauge line and also briefly considered adding the temperature sender. If I hadn't wanted the pressure gauge the temp sender could go in the end of that but I don't know whether that would be as accurate a reading as desirable.

    The pressure relief assembly is screwed in to the side of the sump below the right hand cylinder head and is sort of accessible with the motor in the car, but much easier to get to on the bench. If I ever have Gaston's motor apart I'll drill and tap a sender hole in the side of the sump, but not until I can see the insides to avoid anything hitting.

    By drilling and tapping the dome for the sender (1/4 bsp I think?) I found that the business end of the sender was just smaller than the inside of the relief spring so it fits beautifully.

    My concern once again was that it wasn't the best place to monitor oil temperature given that it would only directly see the oil as it bypassed through the valve, but since the whole assembly must eventually achieve the same temperature as the sump and the contained oil I reckoned it was a good guide anyway.

    It takes a while for the gauge to register at all, but normal tootling around the suburbs and on the highway seems to see it sitting around 70C. As I mentioned before, I saw a new peak of 95 on Wednesday which was a very hot day and we were thrashing unmercifully through the hills of the Yarra Valley.

    Hope that helps, Pottsy.
    Last edited by pottsy; 29th December 2017 at 05:18 PM.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2006 307 Auto 5 Door ("Spike" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! pottsy's Avatar
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    The rocker adjustment nut is shown in the parts book as being 7mm x 1.0 pitch.

    I guess this means that one turn is 1.0 mm so maybe bring the screw just up to the end of its travel and backing off 1/4 of a turn would do it pretty closely?

    Have I got the right end of that particular stick?

    Oh, and have been for a drive this afternoon and added a bottle of Nulon E10 on the way. Ticking has definitely reduced in volume and "sharpness" but obviously is never going away just by pouring in some magic elixir. Research is ongoing regarding le Tick, but I'm pretty sure it's not a "beurm".

    Cheers, Pottsy.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2006 307 Auto 5 Door ("Spike" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

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    Hi Pottsy
    Yes you have got the idea OK with the adjustment using the adjusting screw,but it should have been 1/5 turn.
    However the ratio of the adjusting side lever arm and the valve actuating lever arm side looks to be not equal. Probably about 1/1.2 by the look of my drawing. So proportionally less turn needed at the adjuster. So with 1mm pitch per turn = approx 1/6 turn required One flat !
    Jaahn

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy View Post
    Incidentally, I visited a shop in Braidwood on that trip. The Purveyor espied Gaston parked out front as I perused his models (cars, not that, you dirty minded lot!) and was quick to tell me about his Loony next door neighbour who had supercharged and injected his example. You, Harley, I assumed?

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Thats the one
    Kermit is now next to Daniels house drying out the garlic
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2CV Ticking-image-0-02-07-f56325a1f358ac7dd3cf978fb6a0194bd0634a8d0ca0a734c74f948b5665a6de-v.jpg  
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  22. #22
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    Pottsy, mine had it after coming back from service and install of electronic ignition. I complained about it to Jason Hantos and Iím not sure what he did but it lost the ticking. It was a horrible noise and I wish I could make a suggestion. Chris M

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    Quote Originally Posted by qmusic View Post
    Pottsy, mine had it after coming back from service and install of electronic ignition. I complained about it to Jason Hantos and Iím not sure what he did but it lost the ticking. It was a horrible noise and I wish I could make a suggestion. Chris M
    In that points area there is a piece of sheet metal ( cover type thing )

    that can foul

    and maybe tick around the points area , from memory mine has rubbing scratches on it ,

    some fouling going on ???

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