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Thread: 10% GST on Online Goods under the $1,000 threshold after 30/6/2018

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    No argument of any is needed on that one. At the moment very few are in the market for an electric vehicle. And Australian assembly costs would still apply were they produced here.

    Australians are inclined at some level to support Australian products, that is those that remember what being an Australian entailed! ( imagine Ted Bullpit being offered an electric Holden sex on a stick gogomobile ) and if some infrastructure was set to accomodate charging electric vehicles and we started using our gas instead of flogging it off for nothing OS then something could have been achieved. oh hang on this theory should have been enacted ten years ago.

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    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    I think some of you have the bull by the tail here?

    My purpose for the post was to highlight up coming legislation that will affect buying goods on line! That isn't necessaryily EBay, but all on line sellers.

    The ATO has stated that any vendor over the $75K sales threshold, where ever he is located, will have to register with the ATO to do business in Australia.

    I have no problem paying 10% more, but I firmly believe, how ever or who ever it's collected, there is going to be additional charges.

    If it's MasterCard or Visa, they aren't going to do it for nothing?

    But my biggest concern is losing the suppliers that we have now, and they put Australia in the too hard basket.

    As I have already stated, Der Franzose will not sell to the US!

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  3. #28
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    ...I hope my Russian mail-order bride arrives before the new tax arrangements do.

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    She'll tax you lot more them the tax ever would, you'll be working into your 80's
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
    Every day is a good day

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    She'll tax you lot more them the tax ever would, you'll be working into your 80's
    However , it might be a lot more pleasurable. than the ATO form of taxing.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


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    Ha. Yes. But don't get me started on the ATO (especially after some interesting info came via a political colleague.)

    The Big Picture (not just parts pricing) is that our politicians, (esp. the Coalition, but I have no strong allegiances) have to be proactive in policies, and not leave it "to market forces" to run the country.

    If we want Oz manufacturing, etc, then infrastructure, tax breaks, targets, policies and legislation need to be put into place to encourage these entities .. they generally won't start up in a vacuum. And then, when a new product/industry looks like being successful, the Tax Office, Gerry Harvey, (and others?) start to see how it might be possible to knock it back or marginalise it.

    Look at the mandating of renewable energy in California, it was "mandated" that it had to be in place by 2020, but they met the targets in 2016. Amazing? Not really. Put the right incentives in place, and *miracles* sometimes happen.....

    And I agree with Greg that if the cost of collection is more than the value of the goods, or what it is all worth, etc, .... then it is Bad Policy. And as always, what "local industry" are we really protecting?
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  7. #32
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    Ha. Yes. But don't get me started on the ATO (especially after some interesting info came via a political colleague.)

    The Big Picture (not just parts pricing) is that our politicians, (esp. the Coalition, but I have no strong allegiances) have to be proactive in policies, and not leave it "to market forces" to run the country.

    If we want Oz manufacturing, etc, then infrastructure, tax breaks, targets, policies and legislation need to be put into place to encourage these entities .. they generally won't start up in a vacuum. And then, when a new product/industry looks like being successful, the Tax Office, Gerry Harvey, (and others?) start to see how it might be possible to knock it back or marginalise it.

    Look at the mandating of renewable energy in California, it was "mandated" that it had to be in place by 2020, but they met the targets in 2016. Amazing? Not really. Put the right incentives in place, and *miracles* sometimes happen.....

    And I agree with Greg that if the cost of collection is more than the value of the goods, or what it is all worth, etc, .... then it is Bad Policy. And as always, what "local industry" are we really protecting?
    The "local industry" that you might be helping, (not necessarily protecting) is retail jobs. It is grossly unfair that like for like, item for item that any overseas retailer gets a 10% discount on their goods sold TO people in Australia over goods sold by retailers IN Australia. The difference in some Australian retail industries between staying solvent and losing money is sometimes less than 10%, and how do you or anyone else know how much GST the ATO is missing out on under the current $1000 arrangement? Web based commerce here and overseas is BIG, and bearing in mind the subsidies that foreign manufacturers receive from their governments, I personally don't feel that the Australian taxpayer needs to subsidise them any further...........
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    Hi Guys,

    You just don't get it do you?

    This post was only about purchasing Classic Citroen Parts on line, which for the most part, arn't available ex Australia?

    If they are available, then those parts aren't a problem. Those suppliers buy from Europe direct from the manufacturer (the same place that DF buy from) at wholesale prices and bring those parts in Sea Freight, which is heaps cheaper than air freight especially for the large or heavy items.

    While their prices are often a little more expensive than what we bring them in for yourself, they off a quick local supply.

    I just see that if Dirk Sassen, Der Franzose, Club Cassis, Jose Franssen, and the like all stop selling to Australia because of this new legislation, then we are all in big trouble?

    If you want to rabbit on about the Pro & Cons of Buying Australian, and or protecting retail jobs, I suggest you create your own post, and somewhere other than the Citroen Forum.

    This post was written to try find some answers to what will happen with the new legislation, and nothing else.

    If we all stuck more closely to the subject of the posts, Aussie Frogs would be a far better Forum!

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

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    I just mopped the floor and my bloomin dog walked all over it. Plus she has left a mass of fine hair all over the Xantia passenger seats.

    Horrible little piglet!


    10% GST on Online Goods under the alt=,000 threshold after 30/6/2018-e7bff3b8-0eff-4167-84dc-8fce58e4dcc0.jpg

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    Greg, since lots of US online traders won't deliver to Australia, a group of businesses have sprung up, with US addresses, who will act as a middleman in online sales.

    If the ATO screws up the trade from here, the same thing could happen with car parts - a middleman in a country who can receive parcels and send them on. The middleman would make the orders, handle the taxes and the ATO, and change the labels for further delivery, for a fee .
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    "Any input you have into this new legislation is much needed, and there may well be some lobbying needed to show the government their stupidity in this instance.

    What are your thoughts?

    best regards,

    Greg"


    I have stated them, and realise my input was not as much needed as suggested. Perhaps you should have used different phraseology in your invitation.............. Best of luck with your continued supply of parts.........
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    JBN
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    If Customs are to collect the GST prior to releasing the imported goods to you, what happens if you don't want to pay? I presume Customs will hold onto them for a while and then sell them at an auction or some such just to get rid of them.

    I guess 2CV parts should be able to be procured for less than the 10% GST.

    In the mean time, Der Franzose should be in receipt of a substantial order in the very near future.

    John
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    bob
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    G'day,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    The "local industry" that you might be helping, (not necessarily protecting) is retail jobs. It is grossly unfair that like for like, item for item that any overseas retailer gets a 10% discount on their goods sold TO people in Australia over goods sold by retailers IN Australia. The difference in some Australian retail industries between staying solvent and losing money is sometimes less than 10%, and how do you or anyone else know how much GST the ATO is missing out on under the current $1000 arrangement? Web based commerce here and overseas is BIG, and bearing in mind the subsidies that foreign manufacturers receive from their governments, I personally don't feel that the Australian taxpayer needs to subsidise them any further...........
    are you in retail Kim ? the retail 'protection' I see is the about $7 to $8 Dremel wire brush [which I can't see on line to quote you just now - Bunnings probably found they couldn't sell them] that I sourced from China at a pack of TEN for the same price DELIVERED to my door !! And, yes, side by side the article is exactly the same.....

    cheers,
    Bob
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    G'day,



    are you in retail Kim ? the retail 'protection' I see is the about $7 to $8 Dremel wire brush [which I can't see on line to quote you just now - Bunnings probably found they couldn't sell them] that I sourced from China at a pack of TEN for the same price DELIVERED to my door !! And, yes, side by side the article is exactly the same.....

    cheers,
    Bob
    In deference to Greg, I won't discuss the realities of the situation any further except to say that working in both retail and manufacturing concurrently, quality tools are not supplied from China.......
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    bob
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    G'day,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    .....quality tools are not supplied from China.......
    NQR, the Chinese supply exactly what you request, ask for elcheapo and that's what you get. They also manufacture extremely high quality products, usually much cheaper than most others can manage.

    cheers,
    Bob
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    JBN
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    If you buy from Bunnings, price is probably a great part of the reason. I was trying to cut some concrete pavers last week with a 100mm angle grinder (Ryobi). It didn't have the depth to get a clean cut by cutting on each side. A hundred bucks later, with a 125mm Ryobi plus diamond cutting wheel and I was in business. The Chinese tools last long enough. One just throws them away if they have problems.

    The ONLY product that the Chinese are completely hopeless in producing in either adequate numbers or adequate quality is the humble condom.

    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    If you buy from Bunnings, price is probably a great part of the reason. I was trying to cut some concrete pavers last week with a 100mm angle grinder (Ryobi). It didn't have the depth to get a clean cut by cutting on each side. A hundred bucks later, with a 125mm Ryobi plus diamond cutting wheel and I was in business. The Chinese tools last long enough. One just throws them away if they have problems.

    The ONLY product that the Chinese are completely hopeless in producing in either adequate numbers or adequate quality is the humble condom.

    John
    Is That Why there are SO Many Chinese???????????
    Cheers Gerry

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    Hi Guys,

    Seasink, your info is well received, and appreciated. I have a USA to Me account so that I can buy from McMaster Carr (God's gift to car restorers), as they stopped selling to AU quite a while back. But this third party process adds a lot of cost to the purchase, so that the landed price can blow out of all proportion.

    The other problem being that the Europeans are less enterprising than the Americans, and It's Europe that the majority of Classic Citroen parts come from.

    Ken, you seem to want to do nothing other than argue politics? This is a Citroen Car Forum!

    You take my statements out of context, and then distort what I've written:

    I said: "Any input you have into this new legislation is much needed, and there may well be some lobbying needed to show the government their stupidity in this instance. we may have to do some lobbying to enlighten them"

    I was referring to legislation that attempts to make a foreign company responsible for collecting Australian Taxes, and returning it to Australia. If the legislation costs more to implement, than it collects, and in turn encourages foreign sellers to withdraw from the Australian market then what have we achieved?

    If we do then purchase parts through a third party in Europe, who collects and pays the GST, then that party won't be doing it for nothing, and the cost of the parts will skyrocket. So there will be far less parts purchased, and the third part get rich at our expense.

    When most countries including Australia are wanting a more level playing field, this is doing nothing, except making things more difficult.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  19. #44
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    Despite the argy-bargy, there are quite a few considerations, and I share Greg's concerns that our interest group may lose out if the processes go ahead and without amelioration.

    The fact is that "the world has turned" and a lot of what we are *discussing* is the present reality.

    Brief points:
    - reality versus government .. (e.g. "You have to work until you are 70 ..". despite the lack of almost any jobs if you are 40+)
    - discussing the markup on locally sold goods is just one part of the equation: the costs of setting up a physical shop (rents), hiring and paying staff, the bureaucracy around it all, GST reporting, etc ...there are solid reasons why physical shops are disappearing, and that won't improve.

    In my dealings with government bureaucracies/bureaucrats (and no doubt yours) ...as long as they are paid and protected, they really don't give a stuff about who suffers and what the impact of their actions are. I have found that bureaucrats with a conscience usually leave the system, leaving the entrenched self interested ones in place.

    So ... can we make any submissions, if so, to whom?
    They sometimes have Parliamentary Committees that make recommendations.

    I was part of one such process .... after about two years of quite extensive research, that committee made a recommendation to parliament, which was both quantifiably good and properly researched. Probably cost a few millions in taxpayer's moneys, too.

    Scott Morrison looked at it, and said "nah, not going to do it."

    Welcome to Oz.
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    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  20. #45
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Gary,

    Thanks for your support......

    I suppose that the purpose of my post was to warn fellow Citroen owners that there could be complications looming re the introduction of the 10% GST for online goods, and was there any one out there that knows any more than I do has to how it was going to be implemented. Then we could contact the tax office and tell them to help them out? :-))

    I note on their site that there will be provision for refunding the GST paid when good are returned or don't arrive etc? Given that they don't know how it will be collected, I would think that refunds will be very interesting!

    While I have every sympathy for small business in Australia, I have very little for big business.

    As National Parts Manager for Franzcar Imports I saw first hand what the buying price was from Citroen (far far cheaper than the prices to distributors and dealers in Europe), and It was entirely my decision to set the retail price. I took into account that we had to cover the cost of keeping a significant amount of parts in stock, and make a profit, but also that the parts needed to be affordable for general maintenance. In other words I tried to be fair.

    Things today seem to be much different. Here is a fine example:

    Our red Pluriel refused to start yesterday, it has a history of non starting, some my fault (I won't go into my stupidity in changing the key casing and throwing out the transponder chip), and some not.

    My diagnosis today is that the fuel pump has seized, and this is the second time, the original pump seized, and was replace by a new factory unit about 12 months ago. I wasn't very happy!

    I spent some time applying full voltage to the pump, in both forward and reverse direction, which in the past has unjammed the motor, but no results.

    So its another new pump. My French dealer wants 245 Euro for the factory unit, which didn't impress me, so I went to Google, and the result were a big eye opener. I don't want to know how much the Australian price is?

    There were some very affordable pumps from Latvia, but the most interesting was on Alibarba.com, the wholesale version of Aliexpress.

    This is the webpage I found:

    https://bestarinc.en.alibaba.com/pro...986580383.html

    This is the text on their webpage:

    Fuel feed unit E10625M 1525Z0 1525CJ 1607402380 0986580383
    FOB Price: US $5 - 10 / Unit | Get Latest Price
    Min.Order Quantity: 10 Unit/Units
    Supply Ability: 100000 Unit/Units per Week
    Port: QINGDAO HANGHAI NINGBO GUANGZHOU
    Payment Terms: L/C,D/A,D/P,T/T,Western Union,MoneyGram

    The part no in bold is the correct part no for the Pluriel pump, and between $5 & $10 per unit FOB (Free on Board). Minimum 10 units, so for $50 US Dollars plus freight I can have 10 pumps?

    So while Jerry Harvey doesn't sell Pluriel fuel pumps, this is a fine example of how we are ripped off in this country, and while the tax office keeps chasing the little fish (the soft target), the big fish just gets fatter?

    I apologise that I have strayed from the subject, but for too long now we've been ripped off with the cost of goods in Australia, and the internet is now showing just how much we've been taken for a ride?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post

    I suppose that the purpose of my post was to warn fellow Citroen owners that there could be complications looming re the introduction of the 10% GST for online goods, and was there any one out there that knows any more than I do has to how it was going to be implemented. Then we could contact the tax office and tell them to help them out? :-))

    I note on their site that there will be provision for refunding the GST paid when good are returned or don't arrive etc? Given that they don't know how it will be collected, I would think that refunds will be very interesting!


    Best regards,

    Greg
    Hi Greg,
    I have been trying to get my head around this since your original post. I can't see anywhere on the ATO site that requires an OS supplier to register or collect GST if their sales into Australia are less than $75,000 p.a.

    From what I have read the ATO have set-up a simplified online registration for those businesses/enterprises that currently do have sales of $75,000 or more. I would think it would be in the interest of continued business that those suppliers do register, those that don't will surely contribute to increased sales for those that make the effort.

    We have had the benefit of no GST and not paying VAT for some good time, as a consumer the additional 10% will have little or no effect on our buying choice - as you point out Australian suppliers cannot or will not compete.

    The ATO site has recently been updated (Nov 15 2017).
    https://www.ato.gov.au/General/New-l...mported-goods/

    They have also provide the relevant legislation, I might have a read through when the mood takes me but it probably requires a legal/accounting mind to break it down to laymans terms.
    https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017A00077

    One point cleared up is there will not be any tax double dipping where say you may purchase multiple items with a total value over $1000.00 (the threshold where customs previously added GST in Aus). The GST will not be charged and collected by the OS supplier, with all purchases over $1000.00 the tax will continue to be collected by customs in Aus.

    I am still unclear on how low value items purchased through an OS supplier not required to register are affected - i.e. I buy a set of plug leads $30.00 from one of our suppliers that has not registered - they have no requirement to register or collect, customs would not be interested in collecting $3.00 are those sales exempt??


    Cheers
    Chris
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    . customs would not be interested in collecting $3.00 are those sales exempt?? ...but Australia Post just might !!
    jr20516v

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    Being a recent O/S's traveler, upon entry into Australia we had to sign a declaration that we were not bringing in goods to the value of $1000 (? or whatever not really sure what it was) otherwise we had to pay the GST there and there on the spot. That is, collected by customs at the airport. Nothing to do with an overseas supplier collecting GST for the AU Government - it won't happen, it can't happen.
    Whilst we were below the GST allowance threshold and got through customs without hassles. However, we did have something that was well over the threshold posted back to us as it was too heavy/bulky to carry around on our tour. We were nevertheless prepared to pay the GST but got a bit of a shock that a further approximate 5% was added as "customs administration fee".
    I am pretty sure that if your package is the one chosen to be checked, in addition to the GST; the administration fee will charged,
    So, be prepared to pay if you want your goods to be delivered.
    Regards,
    John

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    I hope that the AT0 can make it work in a way that is not counter-productively expensive to administer. I favour taxes but then I favour the provision of services. And don't get me started on the parasites of the "cash sale" black economy.

    cheers! Peter

  25. #50
    Fellow Frogger! N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Hi Fellow Froggers,

    Today must be a day for me posting Doom & Gloom posts?

    The Australia Federal Government is going to attempt to tax goods purchased online with the GST after the 30th June 2018 that are under the $1,000 tax free threshold.

    My understanding is that the (international) seller is responsible for registering with the Australian Tax Office (if the retailer sells in excess of $75,000 in good to Australia in one year), and collects 10% GST on the goods and freight, and sends it off to the Australian Tax Office.

    Now I can understand big companies like Ebay etc, complying with those requirements, but what about companies like Der Franzose who would supply in excess of $75,000 of Citroen parts to Australia. Are they going to want to be a tax collector on behalf of the ATO?

    I think not, so what will happen is DF will say we will no longer sell Citroen parts to Australia.

    The ATO doesn't say anything about what happens with retailers who sell under the $75,000 threshold?

    This new legislation could have a massive impact on not only Classic Citroen parts importation, but the whole classic car community, and that only the beginning?

    Tell me if I've got it wrong, but unless you can find a supplier that sell the parts you need on sites like EBay, where EBay adds the GST and collects it somehow, and returns it to the ATO, there will be literally hundreds of thousands of sites that will just say Sayonara Australia, the sales to you aren't with it.

    A good case example is Der Franzose will not sell to the USA now because of liability complications?

    Any input you have into this new legislation is much needed, and there may well be some lobbying needed to show the government their stupidity in this instance.

    What are your thoughts?

    best regards,

    Greg
    Apologies for not reading this entire thread, but I'm sure people will just do what I've been doing for years. Purchase through an overseas website and have it shipped to a freight forwarding company in the offshore country, and then have it shipped to Australia.

    It won't be an overseas merchant shipping to Australia - who's to know what's in the box and what it's history is ?

    Cheers

    Justin
    '07 Megane R26
    '07 C3 Exclusive
    '09 308 XSE Touring
    '10 308 Sportium Touring

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