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Thread: INCHCAPE To Show Us How To Sell Citroens?

  1. #76
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    You could say that about any make with a long history, or about any make whose shareholders changed. Some owners cling on to their antiques as being as the last "proper" whatever.

    Makers reuse names too. Have you seen a Corolla lately?

    The fact is that PSA Citroens are still interesting cars and need to be priced advertised and sold better in Australia.

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    How sad. If you feel like that, why bother posting? I agree with Seasink's comments. Modern PSA cars are interesting, great to drive, efficient, safe. innovative, low maintenance and getting more innovative. The new C3, C$ Cactus the Peugeot 3008, DS7, DS5, C5 Aircrosse, etc. are examples.

  3. #78
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    I think that argument has been running since the 1976 'merger'.

  4. #79
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    Some owners cling on to their antiques as being as the last "proper" whatever.

    Hmmm.

    I don't think its entirely universal.

    Some new Jags don't seem to have much "Jaguarness" ... BMW seems to keep a consistent look and feel, Mercedes to some extent, etc.
    Aston Martin keeps a fairly consistent groove.
    Volvo? VW Golf? Mostly evolutionary with familiarity.


    I suppose there are two strands for ANY car maker:

    a) keeping the old faithful buyers

    b) enticing new (+ younger? buyers).

    So. Toyotas are kinda bland, reliable, functional transporters. And they appear to stick to that formula!
    Hondas are "the next step up" from Toyota. Etc.

    Problem for firms like Citroen is that "radical, avant-guarde, ground breaking, amazing ride, etc" were the best known hallmarks.
    How do you keep those characteristics especially regarding (a) and (b) above?

    I dunno. Maybe Citroen decided to have the "DS" range that has the *old* values (but do they?) and another range that appeals to a broader, more conservative market. Personally, I don't think that apart from appearance, that the DS range is particularly "Citroenesque." (I like the DS3 ... but it has little in common with "old" DS values, as good as it is).

    I do think that many models in the current range are pretty good .... albeit less differentiated in the market than before. The Peugeot relationship has improved quality control.

    The irony is that the original DS is consistently hailed as probably the most innovative car ever, and this is pretty much a universal sentiment.

    Could they trade more highly on that?
    Or is its only for the motoring writers? (Who are a pretty conservative bunch these days).





    Last edited by garyk; 21st November 2017 at 12:53 PM.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

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    Yes, David. It is a ridiculous and spurious argument.

    Using the same logic, both the Traction Avant and the original DS19 were not "real Citroens" because by this stage Michelin had taken over Citroen.

    Let's move on.

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    I don’t think Robert Opron or Paul Mages would appreciate your opinion somehow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    ...
    a) keeping the old faithful buyers
    b) enticing new (+ younger? buyers).
    ...
    Packard vs Cadillac and Daimler v Rolls come to mind. Where are they now?

    It's easy to forget that Citroen started out making quite ordinary machinery prior to the Traction Avant. Is a C4 or C6 from 1928 any less a Citroen or a Michelin era Citroen more or less Citroen than one built when Andre Citroen owned the show? Citroen was always more than the hydropneumatic cars, although they are to many what people define Citroen by (plus maybe the duck and Traction and ... others). However, the future car buyers have mostly not any exposure to those older models, so Citroen needs to be Citroen for today and use what it can from the past to help sales (profitably) or cease to exist. The current models really are more than Pugs in drag, despite common technology. Would Pug build a Pluriel, C6 or Cactus? Probably not.

    The latter parts of these videos feature interviews with senior PSA people. You get some sense that Citroen, Peugeot and DS are being repositioned by different people running the show. They are quite long, but of interest.
    New C3 (21m+) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3qx1AinXL8
    2018 Cactus (18m+): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqLC30kVdjk
    Also for Pug 3008/5008 (18m+): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhlg1nT6-v0

  8. #83
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    I don't think that they are making or need to make much effort to retain the interest of the old Citroën tragics. After all we never made them much money and the company failed several times financially in the days of their most technically exciting vehicles.
    They are after the mainstream market and have it right with the 308 and 3008. The multi marque dealers now appointed in Australia give the great unwashed a choice of colours, screen sizes and radiator facial grill expressions to suit most buyers.
    Boring, boring and I will now return to the even more boring challenge of replacing my now reconditioned C5's cylinder head.
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    Citroen were avant guarde for most of their history until PSA. To begin with in the 1920s, Andre Citroen realised that after his previous money spinner (manufacturing artillery rounds for the French Army who gave them to the Germans and then asked for more), the economic morons voting for peace in 1918 had just destroyed a very lucrative business. Naturally he felt bitter (but what would you expect from a Dutch Lemon?).

    Looking for the next big business venture, he foresaw the popularisation of the motor car and its appeal for the masses. A friend and admirer of Henry Ford and an enemy of Renault, he concentrated his energies on producing popular cars for the masses. The early 1930's had him pitted against Auto Union (later to morph into AUDI) in the race to produce a front wheel drive car. His CV joints won the day and he encapsulated the first mass produced front wheel drive car in Europe, clothed in the first monocoque body shell and produced the Traction Avant (front drive).

    Michelin then took over ownership and after WW2 there were two iconic cars - the 2CV and the stunning DS. The 2CV will always be the benchmark for simplicity for internal combustion vehicles. The DS ushered in the future of the motor vehicle post WW2 - front wheel drive, disc brakes, hydraulic suspension, unsurpassed comfort wrapped into a unique and beautiful shape. The CX and GS continued the trend but the world oil crisis of the early 70's forced Michelin to divest itself of Citroen and sold to Peugeot.

    The CX still has the best cabin ergonomics of any car. Elegantly simple. All the warning lights at the top of the instrument binnacle. Revolving drums that gave the answer in a large, back lit numbers rather than the whole menu with a needle pointing to the area of interest. The first car with moulded door trims with inbuilt armrests and grab handle, containing a trigger to pull to unlock the door. All heater controls on the floor console near the handbrake. Every control within the cabin can be operated by feel on a pitch black night - compare that with any of today's cars, or indeed with any Citroens since the CX. The Diravi steering and real engineered crumple safety are unsurpassed. The last of the single spoke steering wheels, which allowed uncluttered visibility of the instruments didn't need to be encumbered with an airbag. Those that have been fortunate to have been in a CX in a head on will attest to its amazing ability to absorb the associated shock in a progressive manner, such that one hardly felt the impact of the accident as the front disappeared yet the cabin remained intact.

    Times have changed. Most cars these days have far too many options, mostly geared towards distractions from driving rather than aids to driving. I guess once you have read the manual and have made peace with the on-board computer which will inform you of what you are allowed to do and it will do the rest, things may be bearable. In about 6 weeks time I will have had a licence for 55 years and will be 72. I will quit driving when self-drive cars become the norm, if I don't quit the world before then.

    I will always fondly recall my time driving old school Citroen. A work of art is always so much nicer than a photo.

    John

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    I just watched a review of the new Peugeot 3008 from UK Jeremy Clarkson Tribe site ( when is he going to be accussed of sexual harrasement and will Morrissey stick up for him?) and the blurb was so nauseating it makes me wonder (again) what planet I am on. Sure it is most probably a decent car, of course it is except being a pukewagon SUV but do I need the BS from a reviewer to sell me one? Non! ils avez aucune idée!

    John: if you are tall and trying to get into a CX on low they are a bastard vehicle! I still like them more than most.
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 21st November 2017 at 11:18 PM.

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    I ignore Clarkson's material these days. Try this 3008 review from the same reviewer as the links I gave a couple of posts up. It's quite long if you watch the whole thing, but useful because this reviewer tends to look at aspects that are likely to matter to buyers rather than some of the more purely technical aspects.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHKi7A29Dxo

    Clearly, it wasn't a perfect test given a few faults with the driver assistance systems and he also pointed out a minor fit issue that a buyer may notice looking at a new car in a showroom. Those things tend to be fixed as production rolls on and software can be updated.

    JBN ... Maybe, iCockpit could have a CX dash with a drum speedo as an option? Just a bit of coding and some graphics to make that happen. I wonder if it can be given a custom skin like many other applications can? There could be some legalities to overcome if a maker was to allow anyone to make a custom dash panel. Agree, it was well laid out. Shame about some aspects of the execution though.

    Who could read an entire new car manual? Do you have spare lifetimes?
    Last edited by David S; 21st November 2017 at 11:50 PM.

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    Ma

    FYI.
    Maybe things might not be quite as bad as they seem.

    See this news item from a couple of days ago:

    PCA sacks dealers - GoAutoNews Premium

  13. #88
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    Thanks.

    That gives us some info about the dealer this thread is actually about.

    I suppose he'll end up with both makes on display.

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    I hope so to. I think it would be to the dealer's advantage to have a diversity of new cars.

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    I don't think that they are making or need to make much effort to retain the interest of the old Citroën tragics. After all we never made them much money and the company failed several times financially in the days of their most technically exciting vehicles.

    I think that is true.
    Its hard to know whether a non traditional Citroen buyer thinks about all this history... (I guess that's what market research is for).

    The new Peugeot and Citroen range do seem to be progressive and interesting, and somewhat closer together stylistically these days. The tussle between the more "radical" design elements is obviously bugging Citroen ... so the Cactus "parking bumps" appear, then disappear. Why not options?

    Right now, its seems that Citroen philosophy is to keep up with the various market segments, offering "something similar....but different".... I suppose that makes sense!

    I would imagine that unseen is, perhaps, some longer term objectives such as electrics + hybrids (or something more daring), and perhaps they are keeping all this quiet until some progressive (and more radical?) models are ready to be released.

    Back on topic a bit more ... Australia is such a small
    market compared to China and emerging economies, that sadly for us, it could even be a flip of the coin as to whether they bother with us at all.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    I don't think that they are making or need to make much effort to retain the interest of the old Citroën tragics. After all we never made them much money and the company failed several times financially in the days of their most technically exciting vehicles.

    I think that is true.
    Its hard to know whether a non traditional Citroen buyer thinks about all this history... (I guess that's what market research is for).

    The new Peugeot and Citroen range do seem to be progressive and interesting, and somewhat closer together stylistically these days. The tussle between the more "radical" design elements is obviously bugging Citroen ... so the Cactus "parking bumps" appear, then disappear. Why not options?

    Right now, its seems that Citroen philosophy is to keep up with the various market segments, offering "something similar....but different".... I suppose that makes sense!

    I would imagine that unseen is, perhaps, some longer term objectives such as electrics + hybrids (or something more daring), and perhaps they are keeping all this quiet until some progressive (and more radical?) models are ready to be released.

    Back on topic a bit more ... Australia is such a small
    market compared to China and emerging economies, that sadly for us, it could even be a flip of the coin as to whether they bother with us at all.
    The electrics and hybrid areas are already addressed by PSA in Europe....but we will not see them. The C0 .. that is C zero, is a combined effort that is basically a rebadged Mitsubishi...and diesel/electric hybrids already are on sale there. A C1 is a shared PSA and Toyota design. Local distributors have to make a prediction ( guess ?? ) about what will appeal to the local market, so we get a very limited local selection of the Chevron badged vehicles.
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  17. #92
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    Hopefully there is still a special order capability for us real citroen tragics that want to be modern citroen tragics as well.

    The C5 Aircross coming in 2018 or the new C5 due in 2020 might be interesting enough to tempt me.

    Cheers, Ken

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    Living well south of Perth in Margaret River, I wondered whether the Perth Peugeot/Citroen agents (Allpike) were still operating. So I tried just now to book my C5 in for a service and was told that (as I suspected) Allpike had closed and that I would have to go to Perth City Peugeot in Victoria Park, way across the other side of town. Phoned the service department using the number I was given, but there was no answer. There is not even a website listed. I've sent a somewhat terse email to Inchcape, but don't suppose I'll ever get a reply. I can go to Eurocare (also in Victoria Park) which I know is well thought of and is what I will probably do, but it's not convenient to where I usually stay in Perth.
    Another alternative however is to use a garage down here in MR which is run by a very helpful youngish couple who specialise in European vehicles. I've had them change the gearbox oil and fit new front brake pads, which they did very efficiently at a most reasonable price, far cheaper than the quote I got from Allpike. They also lent me a car. However they don't have the Lexia diagnostic computer reader (or whatever it is) and I think that with a C5 that is rather important. I gather it is possible to buy one. Can anyone tell me whether that would be worth doing, roughly how much they are and how I get hold of one. Grateful for any advice.

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    Inchcape to halve Citroen warranties 6 - 3 years - they will however honour existing sales. . .
    https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/in...an-distributor

    As an aside I thought this funny - I've just had a look at the Brisbane Citroen dealer site.
    They show only two 'new' Citroen vehicles for sale a 2014 DS3 and a 2015 Grand C4 Picasso
    Our Cars, Bowen Hills - Brisbane City Automotive Citroen

    Oh, and they need spellcheck on their chat pop-up



    Sarah, Sarah, Sarah!!!

    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails INCHCAPE To Show Us How To Sell Citroens?-citreon..jpg  
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

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    'How may I assist you"

    Spell Citroen correctly for a start....
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    A certain Melbourne Peugeot dealer also recently added 'Citreon' to the signage on their showroom building. I assume it's been fixed, but it was slightly amusing to see.

    I don't think that goAuto article is entirely accurate. The original post in this thread appears more reliable. The Canberra dealer's website suggests they have 34 staff and they are predominantly a PSA vendor, so they may have more to lose than some others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    A certain Melbourne Peugeot dealer also recently added 'Citreon' to the signage on their showroom building. I assume it's been fixed, but it was slightly amusing to see.

    I don't think that goAuto article is entirely accurate. The original post in this thread appears more reliable. The Canberra dealer's website suggests they have 34 staff and they are predominantly a PSA vendor, so they may have more to lose than some others.
    I hope someone managed to get a photo of that. . .

    Are you saying the Sydney dealer is still in doubt, that would be more than a shame

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    The electrics and hybrid areas are already addressed by PSA in Europe....but we will not see them. The C0 .. that is C zero, is a combined effort that is basically a rebadged Mitsubishi...and diesel/electric hybrids already are on sale there. A C1 is a shared PSA and Toyota design. Local distributors have to make a prediction ( guess ?? ) about what will appeal to the local market, so we get a very limited local selection of the Chevron badged vehicles.
    Citroen and electrics have not always had a good marriage. In the old days, I often wished the Citroen-Mitsubishi relationship had continued as Mitsubishi do know their electrics.

    John

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    Maybe this recent shift to Citreon may be an subtle ploy to rebrand the product and let André rest in peace.
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    A reasonable spelling if you say Sit-run.

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