In a Citroen buying mood?
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Thread: In a Citroen buying mood?

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    Default In a Citroen buying mood?

    Citroën Héritage vend une partie de ses réserves - L'argus

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    mberry and Jinandfonic like this.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  2. #2
    JBN
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    It hurts me to see a beautiful CX. I had two over a 10 year period. It was the CX that seduced me into belonging to a club of tragic romanticists - the Citroen Car Club (both in NSW and in the UK).

    Today I look around shopping centre car parks at the boring, bulky SUVs that define the owners as cretins of no imagination, unromantic and boring individuals. The news headlines describe one disaster after another where these SUVs are involved in accidents. The CX on the other hand has a litany of drivers that survived potentially fatal car accidents due to its brilliant inbuilt safety. Peugeot emasculated a beautiful and efficient design, History will probably relegate them as a French bicycle manufacturer.


    John

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    History will probably relegate them as a French bicycle manufacturer.
    Or possibly just a major manufacturer of "appliance cars" .
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


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    Moderator,

    This sort of ignorant, insulting and prejudicial crap against modern PSA products, and their owners, has no place on Aussiefrogs. PSA are building some excellent new SUVs - DS7, C5 Aircross, C3 Aircross, Peugeot 3008, C4 Cactus. While we all appreciate and love the earlier vehicles, they were products of their time, which has long since passed. Modern French cars are light years ahead of the earlier vehicles in terms of safety, reliability, economy, comfort, digital and analogue engineering, automation and more. This post is utter rubbish, presented without any evidence whatsoever to support these bizarre views. Whoever it is should get a life and move on into the 21st century.
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    That is moderate....OR.......growl....hmmm...presumption is not necessarily fact

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    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Read my signature lines and you'll note I have a foot in both camps here - a DS3 daily drive and a GS I've owned since 1983 - so I think my opinion is perhaps already moderated .

    I understand the benefits of the "modern", and know that the DS3 won praise amongst some motoring journalists whilst some traditionalists didn't seen to be able to look past its nomenclature, but I also wonder if anyone will ever write about the current models the way the GS was recently described - "It is arguably one of the finest mass-produced vehicles of its day, one that applied ground-breaking engineering to a family saloon. .... [t]he Citroen GS eagerly anticipated the future..." (Classic and Sports Car, September 2017)

    When this is a quote about a Citroen model which most Citroen enthusiasts bypass / overlook, not even one of the iconic models, it gives you a good idea about the expectations and wishes which enthusiasts with experience of predecessors will have of the latest product range. The current range is contemporary with all the benefits of the 21st century, but is it eagerly anticipating the future?
    Last edited by Bruce H; 11th November 2017 at 09:59 AM.
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    Bruce H

    Now 10 DS3 Dstyle; 99 Xantia SX; 96 Xantia SX; 78 GS Pallas; 76 GS Club Estate; 76 GS Club Estate; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobL View Post
    Moderator,

    This sort of ignorant, insulting and prejudicial crap against modern PSA products, and their owners, has no place on Aussiefrogs. PSA are building some excellent new SUVs - DS7, C5 Aircross, C3 Aircross, Peugeot 3008, C4 Cactus. While we all appreciate and love the earlier vehicles, they were products of their time, which has long since passed. Modern French cars are light years ahead of the earlier vehicles in terms of safety, reliability, economy, comfort, digital and analogue engineering, automation and more. This post is utter rubbish, presented without any evidence whatsoever to support these bizarre views. Whoever it is should get a life and move on into the 21st century.
    So are many other manufacturers producing good products.

    "French" cars are no longer French and manufactured in many different countries other than France and use parts from the international pool of parts.

    And I would suggest that my "view" is no more bizarre than
    "History will probably relegate them as a French bicycle manufacturer."
    which you didn't seem to take exception to.

    Take off your blinkers and accept that other manufacturers make products of equal quality.

    And taking a different view to yours is not a reason to "cry foul" to the moderators.

    Harden *** **** up.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    The main thing about "cars" is that the mass market is just that, a mass market. Car enthusiasts, futurists, tech heads, rev heads, etc, are the exception. Dull, pragmatic cars have always largely been the mass market, with certain peaks in times when there were other motives, say, in the 60's when hippies wanted Kombis, or when the teen market bloomed and kids wanted snazzy coupes, etc, or when Brockie was a legend and people bought Toranas. Nationalism is also a big factor (anywhere) and Holden and Ford exploited this.

    When US culture loomed large, Australians turned more to US type cars.
    Cars are another product that have to fit the Zeitgeist of the times.
    Today, people wanting "a car for the future" probably buy a Tesla or other electric or hybrid.
    I don't see a DS4/5 (etc) as being anything other than a car for today.

    The GS was, indeed, a wonderful car, with the most serious problems of an under-powered motor for city driving, and not great air/ventilation. The "average" Japanese car had better specs in that department, and then the "average" motorist didn't want the peculiarities (complexities, servicing) of the hydraulics, even though the 4w discs, the steering, the ergonomics and handling of the GS were exemplary. I consider the GS collectible and seminal, but it has yet to enter that mindset in the market, ditto the CX.

    The lack of a good "auto" model also hampered Citroen's sales.

    The hardest thing for Citroen was to get people to own one for a time, which usually got them hooked!

    I do tend to agree that "most" manufacturers produce cars that are more alike than they are dissimilar (and dissimilar was the more usual territory of nearly all of the legendary Citroens). PSA may be making good cars, but most of them still fall into that similarity zone.

    I still find European cars more tactile, more interesting, more quirky, etc, although getting into newer models, they are mostly bland and generic than in days gone past. That's why the Cactus seemed to herald some "return to form" especially with the new suspension developments. The vast majority of current cars, most Citroens and Peugeots included, have hard suspension (sporty??) and have prejudiced handling over comfort; Citroen's traditional hallmark was to try to marry the two, but neglected this for many years.
    Motorgnome likes this.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  9. #9
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    Ah Nostalgia! It ain't what it used to be.

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    Steady on that's my line.

    Next you'll be saying you ride those bikes with small wheels and hydrolastic suspension
    JohnW and Motorgnome like this.
    Nostalgia.....aahh It's not what it used to be

  11. #11
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    I knew I had read that somewhere, so plead guilty of plagiarism. Apologies.
    The Moulton F frame is riding great and its OEM Fichtel and Sachs torpedo two speed hub (with coaster brake) were engineering marvels in the 1960's and still are.
    Back on topic... I wonder if our modern (in whatever guise) Citroens/PSA cars will even last 50 years... let alone worth preserving/restoring; and if so, who by? Are most on Aussiefrogs on the mature side? I don't see too many youngsters interested in restoring old cars or motorbikes. With most modern appliances obsolete after 5-7 years, nostalgia as we know it could be a thing of the past (sic).
    Motorgnome likes this.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    I don't see too many youngsters interested in restoring old cars or motorbikes. With most modern appliances obsolete after 5-7 years, nostalgia as we know it could be a thing of the past (sic).

    I think that is a good observation. What car today would you put away as a *future classic?* (Not that some of our
    faves are very exotic, but they have an *x* factor we recognise).
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moulton2speed View Post
    I don't see too many youngsters interested in restoring old cars or motorbikes. With most modern appliances obsolete after 5-7 years, nostalgia as we know it could be a thing of the past (sic).
    I think it's bigger shift than that.

    I see surprising number of young people who are in their early 20's and dont have a drivers licence nor do they see it as a priority. My generation went for our licence as soon as we could. It's a big shift in attitudes.
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
    Every day is a good day

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    Aside from all the ranting the catalogue for the cars on sale (which was the original purpose of this thread??) is online from the 20th. Just follow the links from first post. It will be interesting to see exactly what the Conservatoire wants to shed from their, shed!

    I bet there are some French punters salivating at the selection and it will also be interesting to see what they achieve at auction. Always fun seeing what Shannons figures are after event. Hopefully some buyers will get some minty bargains, one of those xantias a V6 looked pretty spiffy.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    Aside from all the ranting the catalogue for the cars on sale (which was the original purpose of this thread??) is online from the 20th. Just follow the links from first post. It will be interesting to see exactly what the Conservatoire wants to shed from their, shed!

    You could indeed ask .... what remains? and why are they specifically selling these models?
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    Aside from all the ranting the catalogue for the cars on sale (which was the original purpose of this thread??) is online from the 20th. Just follow the links from first post. It will be interesting to see exactly what the Conservatoire wants to shed from their, shed!

    You could indeed ask .... what remains? and why are they specifically selling these models?
    My understanding from reading some of the international Citroen forums is that the Conservatoire will be relocating in 2019 (speculation only at this time as to where). The vehicles being offered for sale are duplicates in the collection. Most of these are prototypes and will be very difficult to road register.
    CITROEN HERITAGE OUVRE SES RESERVES POUR UNE VENTE EXCEPTIONNELLE ? L'Aventure Peugeot Citroën DS

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobL View Post
    Moderator,

    This sort of ignorant, insulting and prejudicial crap against modern PSA products, and their owners, has no place on Aussiefrogs. PSA are building some excellent new SUVs - DS7, C5 Aircross, C3 Aircross, Peugeot 3008, C4 Cactus. While we all appreciate and love the earlier vehicles, they were products of their time, which has long since passed. Modern French cars are light years ahead of the earlier vehicles in terms of safety, reliability, economy, comfort, digital and analogue engineering, automation and more.
    They are indeed but then so are almost everyone else's products, the global market competition being what it is. PSA including Opel produce mid range cars at higher costs than competitors who are not constrained to employ expensive Europeans. Their market positioning demands volume in order to compensate, to give their investors a competitive return and car buyers, a competitive price. Safety and pollution regulations and global norms stop them from exceptional designs relative to their contemporaries as were the DS, Traction, H van and 2cv.
    None of these new products are going to provide me with exciting driving as does my Panhard on these lovely Tasmanian roads. The challenge has gone with autos,seat belts and power everything.
    For everyday transport I need reliability, reliability and easy maintenance by someone who knows what they are doing. If I had to choose an Inchcape product today, it would be a Subaru.
    robmac, Motorgnome and Bruce H like this.
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