Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram
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    Default Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram

    I looky here I looky there but simple Xantia blower mod diagram is not anywhere!

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    I've scoured French Forum in UK but the pics I wish to see via link to NZ page are dead.

    Can anyone supply a clear simple concise diagram to do this wretched task?

    I am deficient in electrical knowledge to attempt without. It sort of makes sense but then again.

    SOS!

    Cheers
    Steven

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    You wouldn't consider paying an auto sparkie to do it for you? I imagine that the notes on the relay diagram that you put up on Cam85's thread would be all that a sparkie would need...

    Alec

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    Addo of this address discoursed on this topic at https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v...ic.php?t=39810
    Here is the diagram linked there:
    Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-xantia.jpg
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    my last experience with a sparkly was expensive and they failed dismally to resolve the problem. (On the DSpecial). That all makes sense but can you connect the relay up before it goes into the fuses?

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    I think Seasink's diagram is for a series 2 Xantia as it already has the relay.

    Clogzz has a trove of pics up on his photobucket including a Series 1 Climate Control schematic and some photos of how to fit the relay.

    The Clog's Library | Photobucket

    I have downloaded some of these so let me know if want me to post them here.

    Cheers, Ken
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Here is the diagram for the 95-97 Xantia Climate Control system.

    The item numbers are listed in the Xantia Haynes Manual.

    To install the relay you have to add relay 8048 from the series 2 xantia diagram above.

    There are some pictures on how to do this in the Clogzz album.

    Cheers, Ken
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-ac-circuit-series-1-climate-control-small.jpg  
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    There was an official instruction from Citroen to dealers too but I never had a copy.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    my last experience with a sparkly was expensive and they failed dismally to resolve the problem. (On the DSpecial). That all makes sense but can you connect the relay up before it goes into the fuses?
    I wouldn't write off all autosparkies but you do need to find an old school one. Our local flash place couldn't diagnose a simple charging problem (the Great Danes in the reception area had more brains than some of the young blokes) but I've found a small place where "odd" cars go and he seems competent. AND he was doing a full rewire (FULL) of a flooded Land Cruiser when I dropped over to get my spare Ducellier starter checked. They were systematically fixing the vehicle. I was in awe.
    JohnW

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    Half the reason I for um do reason this forum is great because people are sharing knowledge in order to fix things John. I have nothing against them as such however if I can save some money and learn something along the way then I'm satisfied.

    So I had a look at those pics Ken, I've actually skimmed over before from browsing and the relay looks very straightforward except the two rear silver or clear coated wires. Where do they sprout from? I replaced the resistor on the blower awhile ago, whipped it out again this arvo and tested, worked fine, pluggedit back into car just sitting on floor and it ran intermittently. It would kick off with ignition but you can't turn the f er off! Or alter the speed. Auto and mx no effect.. So what to do?
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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Half the reason I for um do reason this forum is great because people are sharing knowledge in order to fix things John. I have nothing against them as such however if I can save some money and learn something along the way then I'm satisfied.

    So I had a look at those pics Ken, I've actually skimmed over before from browsing and the relay looks very straightforward except the two rear silver or clear coated wires. Where do they sprout from? I replaced the resistor on the blower awhile ago, whipped it out again this arvo and tested, worked fine, pluggedit back into car just sitting on floor and it ran intermittently. It would kick off with ignition but you can't turn the f er off! Or alter the speed. Auto and mx no effect.. So what to do?
    Hi Steven, The problem with the Xantia I had was the blower fan wiring set up in general. Mine had been modified by a previous owner who actually did a pretty horrible job, and still hadn't solved the problem. It took me a couple of years to sort it out correctly. One of the main problems is that the ignition sw contacts are not large enough to handle the current without overheating and even melting. Pretty crap design. In my opinion a vehicle should be designed to work correctly without melting the wires behind the dash.
    How I sorted it. 1. Removed and dismanlted the ignition switch, serviced it, replaced parts as necessary. ( probably easier to just replace the switch unit.)
    2. Fit a HUGE amperage black wire from a new earthing point on the body to the earth connection on the blower motor. ( Just do it).
    3. Use the fan blower switch contacts in the ignition sw as a micro-switch rather than a full power contact as originally designed. You can use a 35 amp relay for switching the full amp fan current, ( the big fan supply wire) while using the ignition switch contact only as the low amp signal for activating the relay. I hope this makes sense. A relay is more easily replaced than an ignition switch.
    The ignition switch in the series 1 Xantia requires the skill of an origami monkey with a degree in micro surgery to dismantle and reassemble successfully. Good luck with that.
    Cheers.. George 1/8th.
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    George am I right in thinking that the key barrel and ignition switch are a single unit in the Xantia - meaning you can't replace the ignition switch without getting a new key? If so that really complicates the scenario...

    In a 406 they are modular - the electrical parts can be completely replaced without touching the lock mechanism.

    Cheers

    Alec

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    Guys thanks for info, I replaced the ignition/ barrel unit recently as the original neiman packed it in. I'm sketchy on your explanation George so I will pm you to see if you can talk me through it via a telephone if you don't mind!

    ps I concur the blower might appreciate a stronger earth because seeing it function whilst on the floor it was working its erse orf!
    Cheers
    Steven

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    George am I right in thinking that the key barrel and ignition switch are a single unit in the Xantia - meaning you can't replace the ignition switch without getting a new key? If so that really complicates the scenario...

    In a 406 they are modular - the electrical parts can be completely replaced without touching the lock mechanism.

    Cheers

    Alec
    Our ignition switch was replaced under warranty many years ago, and the keys were not affected. If I recall it is separate from the lock itself, at least on our 1995 Series 1 car.
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    JohnW

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    Pleased to find that you are right, although it does seem difficult to buy the switch and wiring harness without the lock barrel (unlike Pugs of similar age). Haynes doesn't hint that they can be separated, but the Poms on FCF know better...

    https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/for...ic.php?t=14840
    Last edited by Armidillo; 31st October 2017 at 07:15 AM.

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    I can help later on today with the actual wire connections as I have to go out now for a while.

    Cheers, Ken

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    I havn't actually done one of these yet but here is the theory. I will be doing one soon so I will correct this post if necessary.

    Most relays have the coil connections numbered as 85 and 86 and the main switching contact that connect when the coil is energised as 30 and 87. You could buy a nice 30A fused relay from Jaycar SY-4077 for $9.95 but you don't really need a fuse as F20 is still in circuit.

    Go to the ignition switch and find the set of two red leads. Work out which one is live from the battery - ignition off and look on the connector it plug into for 12 volts. Disconnect the battery. You will need to T a wire off this lead, fit a fully insulated crimp female and plug it into 30 or 87. Then cut the other wire and fit two fully insulated female spades to each cut end. Plug the lead from the ignition switch onto 85 or 86 and the other lead onto the remaining terminal of 30 or 87. Now make and fit a lead that earths to the chassis to the remaining terminal of 85 or 86.

    The result here is that the ignition switch will just feed a small current through the relay coil to chassis which will switch 12 volts from the battery to F20 and then to the blower motor controller.

    Check the connections and reconnect the battery and test. Let me know how you go.

    Cheers, Ken
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-ignition-relay.jpg   Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-ignition-connectors.jpg   Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-ignition-snip.jpg  

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    Great, thanks Ken, that gives me a great start. I just went and had a look at the blower motor which is sitting on the passenger floor and it worked full tilt this morning and just now not at all. I did vacuum out the scuttle on the engine side which was full of crud. Wondering if I upset something but how? Will remove later and give it a test again with a battery. Maybe the brushes are sticking?
    I also had a poke around under the steering wheel and noticed two switch plugs are devoid of what I presume are the Bitron PA 66 GF 30 relays? One has a white socket and the other green, so clueless as whether these are meant to have the relay or not or what they possibly do. I guess I could buy a couple of Tridon relays from Supercheap and shove them in and see what happens!

    just snuck past car club and bench tested the blower, working, stuck two relays in the empty sockets and nothing occurred that seemed to improve anything!


    Ok step 1 tested the red wires with a test lamp and nothing, either off or running. : (


    btw Ken the photo of the relay mod set up differ to your description?


    Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-img_5470.jpg
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 31st October 2017 at 07:38 PM.

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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    George am I right in thinking that the key barrel and ignition switch are a single unit in the Xantia - meaning you can't replace the ignition switch without getting a new key? If so that really complicates the scenario...

    In a 406 they are modular - the electrical parts can be completely replaced without touching the lock mechanism.

    Cheers

    Alec
    Hi Alec, they all separate into different parts. You don't need to change your key or barrell. Just the switch module with wiring.
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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Steven,

    You have to test the socket the two red wires from the ignition switch plug into to find which one is the battery lead. In fact it may be better to wire the relay into the wires leading to the socket so that if the ignition swithc gets replaced sometime, the relay wiring will not be affected.

    The two red wires going to the ignition switch just have the poor overworked switch connected to them. If this switch is totally non-operational, it may be possible to source a switched 12 volts from one of the other ignition switches to power the coil of the new blower module and motor relay.

    Cheers, Ken

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    Hey Ken thanks for getting back, I figured out which wire has power on the brown connector, it is a brown one so now I know which is the battery feed, but since the new ignition I fitted seems to have died at the blower switch since the blower runs on a battery outside the car but not hooked up to the ignition I am again perplexed. I am hoping to follow those photos I think and use the four connections as illustrated, Mandrake on FCF in UK is looking for some photos which have slid off his post which offer an alernative route vis the grey plug so waiting to see what he comes up with. If the ignition end is knackered I am assuming the relay will solve the problem which is of course what seems to have happened to most series 1 blowers in the first place.

    ps there must be other issues since it would only run full speed briefly and no alteration care of the auto/ max slider control. Who knows! It’s a right little monkey.
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 3rd November 2017 at 08:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post

    ...

    ps there must be other issues since it would only run full speed briefly and no alteration care of the auto/ max slider control. Who knows! It’s a right little monkey.
    Have recently taken a Series II wagon back from my son which has exactly that problem. My son says it's the slider control that is cactus and I have no reason to doubt him. We think it's essentially stuck on Auto

    To test if it's stuck on auto, try moving thermostat to an extreme (ie coldest setting if car has been sitting in the sun), then listen carefully to see if the fan runs faster - mine definitely does, but it is easier to tell if the carpet trim that covers the fan has been removed first.

    Cheers

    Alec

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Steven,

    Here are a couple more circuit diagrams. One is of the AC system that might be a bit more readable than the usual style circuit and the other is a diagram of the circuit in the blower module. It has two sections, the 2 x PNP power transistors that regulate the motor speed and another circuit that switches in the relay (in the blower regulator) to bypass the PNP transistors tomake the motor go at full speed.

    So if a module will only go at full speed, there is likely a problem with the power transistors. I have seen them replaced with 2N2955 type power transistors.

    Cheers, Ken
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-blower-control-module.jpg   Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-ac-french-circuit-diagram.jpg  

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Here are some pictures of the blower motor module. It would be best to find a friend with some electronics skills to troubleshoot and repair this module.

    The lead connector on one of my blower motors has become so heat affected that I have had to replace it with new wires that are directly soldered to the circuit board the holds the carbon brush holders and then connect back to the control module. Both my motors have had their brushes replaced many years ago - they must be coming up to need their second set of brushes soon.

    Cheers, Ken
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-under-blower-transistors-rest-circuit.jpg   Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-blower-transistors-2.jpg   Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-blower-transistors.jpg  
    Last edited by Ken W; 4th November 2017 at 08:53 AM. Reason: more info about motor connections

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    thanks Ken, I replaced the entire module and brushes awhile ago thinking that the blower itself was the root of the problem and doing this as a potential fix. Getting the fan off to get to them is tricky as it is a press fit and very difficult to prise off without breaking. Someone has tinkered with this before as the plastic that holds the 3 screws to fix the blower in place are cracked. I did test the blower by putting power on the 4 pin which I assume is the connection for the speeds, only getting power on second pin. Also only point where power in must go. I have only had it on a few times since so roasting it since seems unlikely. I am going to tinker with it today and hopefully unravel more of the mystery, thought I’d see if I can get it going off a battery independently but plugged into the rest of it.
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 4th November 2017 at 10:42 PM.

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    this is really pissing me off! Looking at the photos I’m just confused and do not understand what to do.
    The photo with the two red wires coming out of the ignition going to the brown plug that are cut and spaded onto the relay (which connections on relay?)

    The other two? one an input yo 30 and the other an earth (What relay connection?)
    plus the power going in, does that come from the orange wire on grey plug connection?
    And what happens to that wire if separated from ignition?

    this photo is from the wiring relay thread John JBN put up many moons ago.

    Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-aaf6794d-f5e2-4d4d-9ec0-15e75f62c451.jpg

    I dug this up too after a quick hunt xantia pulseur relai, its still not clear to me what to do though : )

    Desparately seeking Xantia blower mod diagram-d26f8f8a-e725-4fd3-975e-be9a45e47010.jpeg

    how does this sound? My interpretation of this deplorable abhoration.


    cut both red wires on ignition side
    connect red live wire (originally joins brown wire join “1” on brown plug) at 86 on relay.
    connect red wire ( originally joins orange wire join “2” on brown plug) at 87 on relay.
    cut orange from ignition ( originally joins at “2” on grey plug and connect to 30 on relay.
    Earth from 85.
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 4th November 2017 at 04:39 PM.

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