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  1. #26
    Thank God I'm a Frenchman harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Hi Guys,

    It was my mistake to say never, as I often forget that Maxim's Brisbane was the concessioner for QLD at that time, and ordered cars separately from Citco, who was the concessioner for the rest of Australia.

    Your car is obviously QLD. Jim also brought in D Super 5's, which the rest of Australia didn't get.

    As manager of Maxim Motors Sydney in 1983 / 4 (Maxims was the Citroen Concessionaire for all of Australia then), we negotiated with Citroen, and purchased the remainder of the DS seat trims that they had in stock, as there was a ready market for them in Australia at that time, but many of the Europeans DS's had gone off the road.

    There were two container loads came in, and they sold very quickly, but the grey velour was difficult to shift, as we had no cars with that interior.

    The balance of the trims not sold went to Continental cars in Sydney, and the dregs that still remained went to the boys in Gayndah.

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    We were successful in negotiating the purchase of Citroen remaining stock of D Special Weber carburettors, and RHD clutch pivots.

    But I suppose that the whole purpose of my post was to show that there was always variations to the norm........There were a lot of overseas delivery cars coming into Australia at that time, and these were often English spec cars, so they tend to muddy the waters as well.

    Our DS21 EFI Hydraulic is a very late car with flush door handles and headrests, and was a private import into Maxims Old. Jim told me the story that the car was covered with a car cover while it was in the workshop, as he was still selling cars with external door handles.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    Excellent! Great story, full of facts, and this is exactly what we need to hear to share the knowledge. I like to hear first hand information such as this and not some half-cocked suppositions.

    One point to note though Greg, my DS23 comes from Sydney and was there for a very long time. It's possible it could have been purchased in Brisbane then lived in Sydney though. You may know of it: it wore the NSW personalised plates : DEGAUL for many years. It was owned by a Qantas pilot whom I bought it from when he moved to Queensland.
    D Special - blue seat covers-dsc00506.jpg
    Last edited by harrisson_citroen; 5th November 2017 at 01:48 PM.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  2. #27
    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    I have the same issue discussing guitars ... sometimes models DO appear that have no internet history !! Amazing, eh? Doesn't mean they don't exist .... more relevant is that documentation was either not done, or hasn't survived. Or hasn't made it to the www. Right hand drive models were always small potatoes for Citroen, so I would imagine that the bulk of *well documented* info relates to LHD models.

    "It is said" that the earlier Oz RHD CXs were thrown together "in a shed" external to the main LHD works, and was one reason for the poor quality of those models. I have no idea about the voracity of that *fact* (apart from first hand experience that those CXs were indeed rather lacking in quality control...)
    gsowner84 likes this.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  3. #28
    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    Can't say that I know the history of this car (in terms of changes) but the D Special I sold was Bleu Lagune and had this interior:

    D Special - blue seat covers-d5.jpg

    I'd assume that the door trims, being a blue "suede" were refinished:
    D Special - blue seat covers-d7.jpg

    but as to the seat material ....I dunno.
    gsowner84 likes this.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  4. #29
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    Harrison, give me the chassis number, and I can look it up on Citco's sales register. There are 5 pages missing, but it might well be there.

    There were often special orders as well. Special orders and overseas delivery tended to be English spec cars. It's also harder to tell a non Queensland delivered overseas delivery, as in NSW at least they were fitted with a compliance plate. This didn't happen in Old.

    I have had some input into the DS book, and I don't think I've told the story re the DS Seat Trim. I do know that Mark Gordon watches what I post, and picks up lots of things to include. Mark is doing a lot on the technical side.

    I've experienced a lot, but after working for four importers in various roles, as well as initially one of the partners in Chevron Motors, it's getting harder to work out what went with what.

    The good part about the book is they are getting info from a wide variety of sources, which helps get a better picture of the DS in Australia.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    gsowner84 and ds21bvh like this.
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  5. #30
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    “Excellent! Great story, full of facts, and this is exactly what we need to hear to share the knowledge. I like to hear first hand information such as this and not some half-cocked suppositions.”

    I’ll second that...
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  6. #31
    Thank God I'm a Frenchman harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Hi Guys,

    Harrison, give me the chassis number, and I can look it up on Citco's sales register. There are 5 pages missing, but it might well be there.
    Fingers crossed, I hope it's there. It would be good to know some more of the history of the car.

    Here goes Chassis No: 01 FG 6899 Eng. No: DX5 0683016217 DS23ie Pallas Automatique Bleu Delta/Gris Acier

    The car seems to have been well known in Citroen circles in the 80/90's as I have seen some pictures of it at shows where it wore the biggest sheepskin seat covers and personalized No plate : DEGAUL.

    Thanks Greg.
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    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  7. #32
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    Hi Greg,

    Your knowledge along with Ken has really been so helpful and wonderful. Mark Gordon's DS Book (along with Geoff Webber) sounds fantastic.

    I guess from my point of view, I wanted to help people like Dr Danche (le nuancier DS) and others who have such a joyous passion for the DS/ID. And for the DS records to be one step closer to being complete. It's really important to keep documenting the legend of the DS (especially in English for those of us who can't speak French).

    DS and 2CV ownership allow me to talk glowingly about the geniuses behind Citroen. My concern is that one day it will be forgotten and I don't want to be responsible for that. More and more information and publications about the DS and other Citroens keep the passion going.

    I am indebted to AF for helping me harnesses my passion for the double chevron's.

    Regards Syd
    Last edited by gsowner84; 5th November 2017 at 04:16 PM.
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    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)
    1995 Citroen XM Series II V6 (Vert Vega)

    (Previously owned Frenchies - 1976 Citroen GS 1220, 1997 Peugeot 306 XSi)

  8. #33
    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    Indeed. Lots of history eventually gets lost, or diminished, and the D is still regarded as one of the most seminal cars of all time.
    Perhaps in 50 years the baton might get passed to Tesla (or not, etc), but especially if Citroen continues as a marque, then there will be interest in its history. Admittedly, Australia has always been a pretty small market, and the long term enthusiasts here will be lesser numbers than the UK/Europe. But the www does help keep international connections and a sharing of knowledge/passions. :-)
    gsowner84 likes this.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  9. #34
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Harrisson,

    Sorry, no can find...........The main ledger is from 1947 to around 1972, when the French atom bomb test ban came into affect, there is a second ledger that sort of starts after sales recommenced mid 73? when the ban was dropped, and goes to mid to late 1974, there is no record of sales after that, but we know that Citco continued to sell the DS right through 1975 (see advert).

    There may well have been a third ledger, but I didn't find it when Bryson's closed.

    In the end there was a run on sales, as potential customers realised that the Citroen DS would be a classic car, and stocks quickly diminished.

    An excellent TV advert, and backup adverts in the papers helped immeasurably.

    In the end, there were a lot of DS's brought down from Maxims QLD to fill orders. This may well be where your Blue Delta DS with the grey velour comes in?

    D Special - blue seat covers-last-ds-ad.jpg

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  10. #35
    Thank God I'm a Frenchman harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Thanks Greg,

    Very much appreciated.
    Well, it's fine this way as well... The mystery endures!
    It could very well be a Queensland car in the first place, so let's say that she finally came home.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    ...
    The balance of the trims not sold went to Continental cars in Sydney, and the dregs that still remained went to the boys in Gayndah.
    ...
    It's also possible Harrison's car passed via Punchbowl and gained grey trim in middle age. Continentals were were reworking used D models into the late 1990s, so using an otherwise unsold good grey trim to renovate a used car would fit with that. A lot of older D models have been retrimmed by local trimmers, so using an unsaleable old NOS trim kit might have seemed like a gift.

    However, if the carpet looks original, it could well be the original trim colour. From what I've seen, the factory Pallas carpet changed around 1973 from a fairly neat cut pile to a more furry tufted pile as also seen in the CX. The later carpet seems to fade more readily and the browns turn to an orange/yellow.

    I do remember looking at some remnant NOS blue D trims in black bags at Punchbowl. The fabric was still OK, but the foam had gone rotten and sticky and repro trim was also available by then. My CX had the foam in the 3 part fabric sandwich fabric turn to sticky dust, so it has a limited life regardless of how well you care for it.
    Last edited by David S; 5th November 2017 at 07:25 PM.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    Can't say that I know the history of this car (in terms of changes) but the D Special I sold was Bleu Lagune and had this interior:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'd assume that the door trims, being a blue "suede" were refinished:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D7.jpg 
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ID:	101166

    but as to the seat material ....I dunno.
    It had the same owner in Sydney from 1975 up until a couple of years ago, where it changed hands via Jason to the person you bought it from. I haven't seen it for a few years now. The seats are certainly not original and from memory the door trim material was a slightly heavier, more plush fabric versus the original velour. The carpets were original Special issue I'd say.

  13. #38
    Fellow Frogger! denxm's Avatar
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    Interesting to see with Greg's post of the advert for Citroen dealers in NSW in 1975 that including the importer,there were 5 city dealers
    plus 13 in country NSW and the ACT.
    Citroen must be the only maker in the 40 plus years to go back to around less than you can count on one hand,a real shame.

  14. #39
    Thank God I'm a Frenchman harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post

    However, if the carpet looks original, it could well be the original trim colour. From what I've seen, the factory Pallas carpet changed around 1973 from a fairly neat cut pile to a more furry tufted pile as also seen in the CX. The later carpet seems to fade more readily and the browns turn to an orange/yellow.
    Hard to say. When I removed it in 2008 it was in a filthy state- as seen in the inside picture . Could have been original and more like you describe as a fairly neat cut pile but then if changed already in the 90's it would also be around 25 years old by 2008. It's a pretty hard colour to keep clean on the floor...
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    I do know that Mark Gordon watches what I post, and picks up lots of things to include.
    Yes Greg - you ARE being watched...LOL...
    Thanks for the story on the interiors I've included it in the production and sales section draft...
    The book would be an impossible task without kind and generous people like Greg - there is so much of the history which is not written anywhere.
    I do have to say all kudos goes to Geoff for instigating this wonderful project - he is the one who got it off the ground and continues to drive it forward with both Helen and I. We see it very much as a collaborative effort in conjunction with all the great people in the Australian Citroen community.
    Cheers,
    Mark...

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