DS starter motor removal
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Thread: DS starter motor removal

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
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    Default DS starter motor removal

    In case this is of help to anyone, here’s a quick description of how to take a starter motor off a late model DS.....

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    I’ve just swapped starters on my car and in the past have always done this by removing the exhaust manifold, which is a bit of a pain and slow especially if the nuts are rusted on. But much to my surprise it can be done without and lots of time saved. I guess that might be common knowledge but it was a new revelation to me



    Remove heat shield on manifold; remove the brown metal weight that’s bolted to the chassis near the engine mounting; remove the sphere (that’s probably not essential but it helps access and to see what’s going on). There are 3 bolts holding the starter on longitudinally to the bellhousing and with some there are two other bolts that connect the end of it directly to the engine. Take the belts off the hydraulic pump and turn the pump out of the way, so you can see the longest of the 3 bolts from above. Undo them all.


    The aluminium heat shield and electrical connections on the starter also need to be undone. Then much to my surprise there is just enough clearance to manoeuvre the heat shield out, followed by the starter! We are talking mm of clearance, but it actually makes me think Citroen did after all think about changing the starter when designing the car.


    Reassembly is straightforward, but it’s worth running an M7 tap through the holes and a bit of grease.
    mberry likes this.
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

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    I think that there is something similar in Manual 518 (that covers the 5 bearing engines when they were first introduced in 65/66). Nice to know it works!

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    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    In my experience on a '72 DS, the aluminium heat shield on the motor does not come out unless you bend it.
    Even with loosening the engine mounts and lifting the engine (which I did).
    And yes, I did remove the brown thing too.
    And bending it to get it out is a trivial job compared to bending it back to shape once in place.
    Also, without lifting the engine, the motor could not be got out anyway.
    My experience, I may be wrong, but honestly, space is space and I took my time.

    It still (probably) beats removing the exhaust manifold

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    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
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    I found if you undo the aluminium shield and the starter motor, manoeuvre both a bit so the starter nose is out and the other end is pointing down a bit, then the shield will come out diagonally upwards. After that the starter will come out, up and through the gap with some jiggling. Had to try several ways a few times over as it really seemed like the shield wouldn’t come out at first.
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

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    It really depends whether you have a 10-tooth starter or a 9-tooth starter. The 10 tooth starter (fitted to earlier 5-main bearing engines) is huge. I'm not sure it can be removed without removing the exhaust manifold. The 9-tooth starter can definitely be removed as described above. Here is a photo showing the difference in size between the two. Of course the Valeo starters as well as my OSGR starter can easily be removed (with heat shield still attached) by removing the engine mount and the anti-drumming weight from the firewall.

    DS starter motor removal-ducellier_starters.jpg
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    That's a handy photo. I think that the 21s had a more powerful starter than the 19s and so they may also have been larger?

    Manual 518 does indeed show a starter being removed with the exhaust manifold in situ. (Op DX.533-1). It's an early big 10 tooth starter, but it doesn't have the (solenoid?) thing mounted on top - so is a 'slimmer' unit.

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    Manual 518 does indeed show a starter being removed with the exhaust manifold in situ. (Op DX.533-1). It's an early big 10 tooth starter, but it doesn't have the (solenoid?) thing mounted on top - so is a 'slimmer' unit.
    Scratching my head

    Are we talking about LHD here? I've seen this mentioned and have pics but never on a RHD car. . .





    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS starter motor removal-lhd-starter-removal2.jpg   DS starter motor removal-lhd-starter-removal.jpg  
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I guess you could always remove the steering column on a RHD car????????
    Cheers Gerry

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    I guess you could always remove the steering column on a RHD car????????
    Well yes you do anyway if removing the exhaust manifold, you would also need to remove the gear linkage rod and associated paraphernalia, clutch cable etc. on a manual car. I was more asking the question, is this applicable to RHD? 518 illustrates LHD. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
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    Not sure about whether it’s possible on a RHD car, should have said mine is LHD.

    On the RHD assuming the steering column is removed, the gearchange cable will get in the way of the exit path for the starter but maybe it will pull out of the way enough to let it past. Would be interesting to know for sure.
    GreenBlood likes this.
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Well yes you do anyway if removing the exhaust manifold, you would also need to remove the gear linkage rod and associated paraphernalia, clutch cable etc. on a manual car. I was more asking the question, is this applicable to RHD? 518 illustrates LHD. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
    Chris,

    A few weeks ago I quizzed Lance at DS Motors about this very question as mine needs to be done soon, he said they always remove the manifold so I guess that 's the better way to do it as they must have experienced all practical ways.
    Upon reflection , i don't think I'll try and tackle this one and will see if I can book it in before Christmas.
    Any recommendation on which starter is best?
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

    DS23 IE Pallas Automatique
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    Chris,

    A few weeks ago I quizzed Lance at DS Motors about this very question as mine needs to be done soon, he said they always remove the manifold so I guess that 's the better way to do it as they must have experienced all practical ways.
    Upon reflection , i don't think I'll try and tackle this one and will see if I can book it in before Christmas.
    Any recommendation on which starter is best?
    Yes, that was my suspicion, if it were possible the likes of Lance of DS Motors or Ian/Rod at Euroserve would have surely used this method.

    The accepted replacement is the smaller Valeo starter heaps of grunt and spins faster. . .
    DS Valeo starter/engine mounts

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Scratching my head

    Are we talking about LHD here? I've seen this mentioned and have pics but never on a RHD car. . .





    Cheers
    Chris
    Can I temporarily divert this thread for a moment? Chris: I'm feeling "hydraulic pipe envy" !!!! How did you get that finish on the plate and pipes connected to your centrifugal regulator? I've seen pipe re=plated in silver. I've seen pipes re-plated in silver then passivated to the yellow-gold colour. Yours look different and more natural. Is it olive passivate?? Are they new old stock?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    Can I temporarily divert this thread for a moment? Chris: I'm feeling "hydraulic pipe envy" !!!! How did you get that finish on the plate and pipes connected to your centrifugal regulator? I've seen pipe re=plated in silver. I've seen pipes re-plated in silver then passivated to the yellow-gold colour. Yours look different and more natural. Is it olive passivate?? Are they new old stock?
    Oh man I wish that were my car (but in RHD) I grab pics I find interesting/useful from the www.

    I should also make note of the source, sometimes do, unfortunately I can't help on this occasion - I think it was a US car

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Thanks anyway. The search continues.....

    Back to starter motors: the factory repair manuals rarely, if at all, give alternative instructions for RHD cars, so there is no guarantee that the instructions given would work for RHD. many more things would need to be removed. Also, the example given in 518 is a (6166?) starter without the bulky top solenoid thing.

    Budge

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    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    On the '72 21, LHD, the motor got to that point, after which I had to lift the engine


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    Volumetrics! I haven't had to attempt this bostord task since putting a ubeaut small Valeo in but I have to revisit the exhaust some time soon for tweaking and will need to put an insulation sleeve on the solenoid wire so he doesn't get the melty melty. But I reckon if you're faffing around with an original starter flick it and replace with a small one and get or make the bolt extension shim.

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