Xantia dead. What C5 to get?
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Thread: Xantia dead. What C5 to get?

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    JBN
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    Default Xantia dead. What C5 to get?

    My Xantia is to be replaced. The heater has been bypassed as new hoses are not available. One of the rubber return hoses hidden way down the firewall is leaking about a litre a week. There are also engine oil leaks on the rear of the motor. I had a look at the problem from underneath when I was given permission to use the hoist at a local garage. The car was bought in 2009 for $2000 with about 100K on the clock. It is now around 200k. My wife is upset with the ratty drivers seat which has suffered some wear over the past 22 years. So I will shortly be giving the car away - it still has a good bonnet.

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    OK. The replacement. First criteria is less than $10,000. I hate spending money on cars which is why I have always bought second hand Citroens. Cheap to buy but perhaps a bit more expensive over the years to keep going than say a Toyota.

    OK, looks like a C5 is its replacement. I need a hatch and I want it cheap. There are 9 cars on Carsales in Sydney below $6000. I prefer the earlier 2003/2004 shape rather than the 2006/2007 shape. The choice of engines are 4 cyl petrol, 6 cycl petrol, 4 cyl diesel and 4cyl 2.2 HDI diesel.

    Those that are familiar with C5 ownership, please give me your views.

    John

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    There's a low mileage turbo Xantia for sale right now....... I know what you said of course.

    We ended up replacing our excellent Xantia with a Renault Scenic. I found a good, one owner, manual low mileage car and got it for under $10K including new tyres and cambelt. The ride of course is not up to Xantia standards but the functionality is superb.

    Good luck with the C5 choice, of course.
    JohnW

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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post

    Those that are familiar with C5 ownership, please give me your views.

    John

    All things considered , of all C5, the best is the X7.

    But it's not a hatch and may not be under $10000.

    If those things are imperative then the only choice is a 2007-2008 series 2 HDI 6speed AM gearbox.

    If however you prefer the previous shape ie 2003 then get one of those rare manuals, there are a few.

    All in all I would spend a tad more , get an X7 and you would be much more likely to NOT spent lots of money fixing it as you would the previous models. I've had one of each 2003, 2007, 2014
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    Very sorry to hear this John, but i do understand. My Turbo CT blew a headgasket and a strut top at the same time, and so failed rego. That was a couple of years ago...

    Do not, under any circumstances, get one with an AL4 gearbox (ie 4-cylinder petrol auto)! And a 4HP20 (V6 petrol auto) is no better! George 1/8th loves his V6, and I have a 406 v6 MANUAL that has done almost 300,000km and is very strong mechanically (gets electrical gremlins though ), so I think that a V6 manual would be worth considering.

    From my reading, the earliest C5 I would own is the first model with the 2 litre diesel and the AM6 Japanese 6-speed auto. I know, I know, it's only available in the updated body.

    I wouldn't be tempted by the Turbo CT, unless the seller could convince you that all the stuff that gives trouble has been renewed recently. His ad mentions a couple of problems, but what about the heater, cabin fan, radiator fans, LHM return lines, brake boot, strut tops etc...?

    Cheers

    Alec

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    If you want a C5, and you want a long term relationship, with minimum expense, get an RHH 2.0 HDI diesel X7 model. Something manufactured from 2011, or registered here about 2012 on. Some of these are steel sprung (and quite acceptable). "Comfort" and "Exclusive" will be hydraulic. Easily checked if it matters to you - look for the spheres under the bonnet.

    As said above, no hatch backs. I wouldn't want a first series at this age, nor a six if it needs work.

    If a hatch is a must, give some consideration to a B7 series C4. They are cheapish now, spacious and ride in a Citroenesque manner on springs, but most have the dreaded AL4. Rare manuals exist and upper spec models have the 6 speed piloted box, which works quite well as a manual. The diesels are 1.6 HDI.
    Last edited by seasink; 14th September 2017 at 04:42 PM.
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    JBN
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    Thanks so far for your thoughts. I would say that the Xantia I have didn't cost much to keep or run. Bought for $2000 with dents on both sides from yellow bollards. All spheres dead. Replaced all the spheres and the rear arm bearings. Fortunately the car was rear-ended. The amount from the other persons insurance ($4000) plus me paying for a second hand hatch and rear bumper ($1100) and me stripping the car for beating and painting resulted in a dent free completely resprayed car for $1100. The car has always been insured for $6000. All in all, very cheap and enjoyable 8 years of motoring.

    Unfortunately manual cars are out as the car is basically for my wife and she only drives autos. The quest goes on.

    John

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    John,
    I have a 2003 C5 2lt petrol with the 5 speed manual gearbox. 180K, tidy car, red, (too many cars). PM me with your contact number if your interested.
    Allen.

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    Sorry John, didn't read the last line of your post. I also have a 2nd series 2lt diesel with the AW 6 speed box, nice car, for sale for the same reason.
    Allen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    If you want a C5, and you want a long term relationship, with minimum expense, get an RHH 2.0 HDI diesel X7 model. Something manufactured from 2011, or registered here about 2012 on. Some of these are steel sprung (and quite acceptable). "Comfort" and "Exclusive" will be hydraulic. Easily checked if it matters to you - look for the spheres under the bonnet.
    ...Or the electric park brake.

    But seasink's advice is sound if you can live without a hatch (considered an estate?). A 2010-2011 X7 Comfort should be doable for about $10k. It has hydractive suspension, a punchy 120kw engine, a good 6 speed Aisin auto box and a modern Bluetooth stereo. Love mine!

    2008/09 estates are also in the price range, but the 100kw engine is (reputedly) slow as a wet week...
    2011 Citroen C5 - 'La Barge'

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    Hi John - do you get 'The Chevrons' (NSW Citroen club magazine)? October edition arrived today. There's a C5 X7 in the classifieds that is within your budget - must be a very early one X7, as the ad says it's a 2008 model.

    PM me for contact details if you're interested but don't get the magazine (doesn't appear to be listed on AF Cars for Sale/Wanted).

    Alec

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    I would advise steering clear of the 2.2 diesel. Just that they appeared to be used only once in the Citroens and no-one knows much about them and are harder to replace from wrecks.
    Erik
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    Thats interesting ....Jaguar with an 8 speed box is pretty good
    Peugeot 508 GT goes very well.

    .....and the 2.2 C5 Limited edition I own is a fantastic car. Do you self a favour and test drive one!!!!

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    happy with my 2005 2.2HDI
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    Quote Originally Posted by MELso View Post
    ...Or the electric park brake.

    2008/09 estates are also in the price range, but the 100kw engine is (reputedly) slow as a wet week...
    Melso,

    The 100kw engine RHR has the same torque output rating as the 120kw at 2000rpm when on overboost, it just doesn't sustain it quite so well in the upper rev range hence the lower power rating. The AM6 gearbox is programmed to keep these engines running very close to the 2000 rpm torque peak at all reasonable speeds anyway. I have found our RHR has very adequate performance around town and to ensure good passing performance for a highway trip, I just make sure it has a new fuel filter. The responsiveness improvement around town from fitting a new fuel filter is often quite marked as well even if the car hasn't started to miss yet due to insufficient fuel delivery.

    I think UFO would agree with this too.

    Cheers, Ken

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    Melso,

    The 100kw engine RHR has the same torque output rating as the 120kw at 2000rpm when on overboost, it just doesn't sustain it quite so well in the upper rev range hence the lower power rating. The AM6 gearbox is programmed to keep these engines running very close to the 2000 rpm torque peak at all reasonable speeds anyway. I have found our RHR has very adequate performance around town and to ensure good passing performance for a highway trip, I just make sure it has a new fuel filter. The responsiveness improvement around town from fitting a new fuel filter is often quite marked as well even if the car hasn't started to miss yet due to insufficient fuel delivery.

    I think UFO would agree with this too.

    Cheers, Ken
    the only alternative if you don't want an auto is a poogoe 407. I'd not really suggest that direction..... though I did see a 2litre diesel 6spd manual go through the local wholesalers last week for less than $4000 That's a lot of car for not a lot of money

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    I quote "Unfortunately manual cars are out as the car is basically for my wife and she only drives autos. The quest goes on."

    There are many Renault Scenics out there, most automatic. And as we inevitable get older and less flexible, they are very good. Of course, if she wants lots of power, it isn't the car....

    I will now step back, I promise.
    JohnW

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    local wholesalers "as traded" place has an old C5

    2005 CITROEN C5 HDI HATCH-AUTO-138K'S-DRIVES WELL-HAS DENT-ONLY $1,200 WHOLESALE | eBay

    it should be fun .. it would have the skitzophrenic POS AL$ gearbox... so would keep you endlessly entertained with it's crazy behaviour (while it works that is)
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    JBN
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    Default Perpetual Procrastination Leads To Eventual Neglect

    Jason replaced the return hose that was causing me grief with a new one which I think Addo gave me some time ago. He agreed it was a bastard of a job. The old rubber was fossilised.

    So, the Xantia gets to live another day but I will keep my eye open for a C5 HDI 6 speed auto, either second series or X7 at a reasonable price.

    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Jason replaced the return hose that was causing me grief with a new one which I think Addo gave me some time ago. He agreed it was a bastard of a job. The old rubber was fossilised.

    So, the Xantia gets to live another day but I will keep my eye open for a C5 HDI 6 speed auto, either second series or X7 at a reasonable price.

    John
    A bit late, as the Xantia sounds to have been reprieved..... but here's my experience.

    My second nose C5 2006 diesel 6 speed has just passed 120Ks. It has typical C5 failings .. quirks... despite the best of attention from talented workshops. ( half the problem with any Citroen is finding people who KNOW how to do things .. even down to the correct low SAPS oil ). The C5 is soon to need new front brake pads ( and the second set of pads and rotors )...from mostly commuting traffic use. It has required both CV joint boots ( universal stretch over the joint type works well ), a set or rear brake pads, and despite several changes of gearbox oil it has its "habits"....that are readily "driven around" or disappear with a different driving style.
    It has received a set of comfort spheres ( all 6, front stiffness sphere had died ) and yesterday both rear bump stops for the trailing arms. It has exhausted a couple of batteries ( they start telling fibs once the battery is getting to the end of its life). It also has the modified bit of wiring harness to the stoplight switch. Timing belt and waterpump naturally. Both return pipes from the front struts have snapped but a repair using fuel line is easy. So for its mileage it has not been particularly good or bad for a Euro car. ( I suspect a Toyota would be more cost effective ).
    At 11 years of age it remains a lovely car to swan around in. Would I have another ??? Who knows what sort of late X7 might appear when next I go shopping.
    The X7 seems, from my limited exposure to be better "calibrated"..the diesel engine and gearbox are well mated to keep engine revs down ( as stated by Ken W above ) and the X7 ride is soft, less floaty but roll is better controlled. They too have their problems with disappearing LCD display panels ( heat ?? ), front arm bushes and sticky plastic interiors. Having been a passenger in a written off rear ended X7 I can confirm their robustness.

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    John out of curiosity was the return hose off the steering, I did that one awhile ago on my Xantia and it was a total swine! It was the ultimate citroen challenge I thought. Never again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post

    So for its mileage it has not been particularly good or bad for a Euro car. ( I suspect a Toyota would be more cost effective ).
    .
    In terms of brake and suspension costs, I suspect the Toyota would only have needed pads and machining of rotors in those kms? Can't think of much in the way of suspension costs that would be incurred in 120k?

    Do spheres and CV joints normally only last 120k? (thought they would last longer)

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnbull151 View Post
    In terms of brake and suspension costs, I suspect the Toyota would only have needed pads and machining of rotors in those kms? Can't think of much in the way of suspension costs that would be incurred in 120k?
    In fact, I can assure you of that.

    My son has 4 year old Camry Atara purchased ex fleet with 20k). It's been regularly serviced under the cap priced scheme ( approx $200 per service + parts)

    It has just turned 120 k and the dealer fitted front disks and pads at the last service.

    Other than this the services have been lubricants and filters.

    For the $25 k odd he paid it's been an ultimately reliable and economical car to own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnbull151 View Post
    In terms of brake and suspension costs, I suspect the Toyota would only have needed pads and machining of rotors in those kms? Can't think of much in the way of suspension costs that would be incurred in 120k?

    Do spheres and CV joints normally only last 120k? (thought they would last longer)

    M> Turnbull,


    I forgot it has needed one engine mount ( right side ) and a torque reaction mount .. a "dogbone" in CX terms.
    I have to agree with your statement, having run a Camry for 280K kilometres.

    Frankly the quality isn't there.
    Brake discs and CV joint boots lasted much longer in the Toyota product ... didn't need either of these items in 18 years.
    It is the CV joint BOOTS that have both split over that distance/time....BUT if you desire spheres there is really nowhere else to go other than a very high end Land Cruiser, and I don't know if even they are sold in OZ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    John out of curiosity was the return hose off the steering, I did that one awhile ago on my Xantia and it was a total swine! It was the ultimate citroen challenge I thought. Never again!
    I am not sure. When you are standing at the crossroads of Hell, which road goes where is a moot point.

    I don't think it was from the steering rack as when the engine head was removed, I used the opportunity that the greater access provided to replace the return hose from the rack to the tree. I tend to think that the replaced hose which had a T junction at the bottom, was to connect both rear suspension returns. The replaced hose ran vertical from the middle rear of the LHM tank vertically down to the front suspension cross member.

    Why Citroen persisted with rubber for so much of their return lines is probably a sop to Michelin who owned Citroen for quite a while. Rather, they should have kept with the clear plastic pipes that run for the length of the car and continued them up the firewall to a central firewall mounted bus behind the LHM reservoir. Then just connect one rubber hose from the central bus to the LHM reservoir. This hose gets bent each time the LHM container is cleaned and the old oil replaced. After years of living in a hot engine compartment, the rubber hardens and one day splits. However, it would be very easy to replace being one fairly short rubber hose is a visible easy to reach location.

    The current system has many rubber hoses having to bend just to remove the filter housing and the tank. Each hose gets bent against its natural curve resulting in breaks. This is compounded by different hoses having 3 way junctions or more in the case of the tree. The only place for rubber hoses is connecting moving suspension arms where a flexible link is required or connecting vibrating engine mounted pump to fixed LHM reservoir.

    John

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    I've had Subarus with Japanese brakes and Citroens with Euro ones. If you use the same disc and pad brands on both, you get much the same mileage.

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