DS Boot Seal
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Thread: DS Boot Seal

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! brycedunn's Avatar
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    Default DS Boot Seal

    My DS was recently painted and I am putting the back together again.
    My car didn't have a proper boot seal, looks like somebody had a go of making their own seal with four bits of individual rubber.

    I've heard the repro boot seals are not great, but since I never had one, what is the best approach. One person told me to forgo one altogether and just use the rubber strips that are on the boot edges like the D Specials sold in france. on the other hand i've seen people fitting them on this site, so perhaps better than nothing...

    My boot is an aluminium unit from a DS19, so the corrosion aspect has not affected me.

    Thoughts?

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    The original sealed foam seal is a great rust trap! The four rubber seals modification can be made to be water tight and your boot lid may then last forever!
    Cheers Gerry

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    I'm still in two minds myself, but i have been looking into this.

    I was told (and have read somewhere) that the four rubber closing strip method was the standard fitting and that the sponge shape glued into the boot was used by Citroen for cars destined for dusty climates and possibly as a standard fitting on Pallas cars as it gave a far better seal. My1968 Pallas has the sponge seal and my humble 1969 ID19B Confort also had the sponge lid. Although it was purchased in France, it was then driven over to Egypt - so both my cars kind of fit the story?

    I've no direct experience but i'm told the rubber strips don't always contact the surfaces and provide a good seal. I'm also told that they make the boot noisy? I've studied how they are fitted and, if you use them, would suggest you look carefully at how the edges/ ends are overlapped on an original car as that is how water is kept out of the boot area (strip near boot lock fitted first, side strips fitted second and over first strip. Back ends fold over behind number plate at 45 degree angle and are screwed in place - making holes into the boot!. these also become mud traps. Top strip near screen fitted last and over side strips).

    Once the black surface was damaged, the inner of the old sponge seals used to soak up water just like a bath sponge and, when you shut the boot lid, it squeezed the water out - just where you didn't want it.... I successfully repaired the sponge on my old ID using a black rubber product intended for flat roofs. i carefully removed it, dried it out over several weeks, then recoated it using a two stage rubber process. first painting on a clear undercoat and then painting on layers of rubber after. This gave a thick black rubber outer layer once it had cured. It came out great (looked like new) and didn't leak at all. I stuck it back in with Evo-stick.

    Fort my current Pallas restoration i have bought repro rubber sealing strips but also bought one of the report sponge seals.

    I have some original rubber sealing strips and the repros look the same. At the moment the repros seem to be flexible enough for the job and I am considering using them (see other thread about poor quality rubber in report parts though.....) . It's important to buy a long enough length to allow for overlaps as described above.

    I was told that the new sponge seals are 'closed cell' and so do not take on water. Not fitted yet but i've tested it: I held it underwater in the bath and gave it a good squeeze to see if it then sucked in water. I then gave it a squeeze out of water to see whether any water came out.....It did - but nowhere near as much as you would get with a regular sponge. It took real effort to get water to come out but a few drops did. I think water is able to sit in minute surface cavities. Also, where the rough edges of the sponge moulding are cut off/ tidied up, the outer surface integrity of the sponge thing is compromised/ roughened. This provides another opportunity for surface water to sit on the seal.

    I saw a repro sponge seal fitted to a car at a rally in the UK recently and it was falling off! This may be simply because the owner had not used enough glue to hold it in place. based on my ID19 rebuild and the original glue marks on my boot lid, you need to completely glue the whole flat surface that fits in the lid: you don't want to leave a thing gap anywhere underneath it for any water to sit i. if anything, too much glue will look more original than too little glue. Darrin suggests thoroughly roughing up the surface to be glued before applying the glue so that it 'keys-in'.

    I'm not sure the shape of the repos is same as the originals. i feel that the original was more pointy at the point it goes around the boot catch end - just like the shape of the boot lid. Once it's all glued in place it becomes irrelevant. On a related point, important to do a dry test fit first as the sponge seals are very stretchy and you don't want to get the alignment wrong! Once you start, you won't get a second chance! Consider using a couple of pieces of electrical tape on your test fit to make some alignment marks around the perimeter to guide you on the real fit.

    CONCLUSIONS:The rubber strips would be an easy, low maintenance solution but were not originally on my car and may allow dust to be drawn into the boot - making it dusty all the time. Possibly also noisy?

    I am still considering using the sponge seal on my Pallas as that is what it had from new. I don't think it will take up water at anywhere near the rate that the original ones did. It will live in a garage so should not be exposed to a lot of rain. if it is, i will dry the boot seal surface and keep an eye on to - maybe leaving the bottled open for a day or so after.

    Hope this helps

    Budge
    Last edited by Budge; 26th August 2017 at 06:01 PM.

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Nice reply Budge

    I think firstly though we need to remind that Bryce has an aluminum boot lid that has just been repainted inside and out. It's not going to rust!

    I believe all late cars delivered to Aus were fitted with the sponge type seal, the one removed from my car had an open cell foam (yellow) covered in a black rubber skin. These were certainly rust traps, once the outer skin broke down they would hold water for days if not weeks. The replacement foam seal I have has a much thicker rubber outer and was sold described as having a closed cell inner?

    I'm of the opinion that of equal importance to the lower boot lid rust are the drain channels on the boot frame, neglect here over time with build up of dirt, leaves etc. provided a breeding ground for rust. The top corners where the boot hinge mounts being a common rust point. Both the foam seal and what we call the French seals (4 x rubber strips) would not contribute to or prevent this rot.

    michaelr used a pinch weld seal, this required modifying the boot surround at the corners and he has reported a successful seal. A compromise between the two original options. The seal is as used on the VB/Vl Commodore.


    DS Pallas Restoration

    I plan to stay with how the car arrived in Aus and fit the replacement foam seal, with the bootlid prepared properly sealed and painted in 2k inside and out, likewise the boot frame, I'll take my chances - I like the way the boot lid sits a little higher but that is probably because that's how I remember them from new.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    Fellow Frogger! brycedunn's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies. Are the little strips rubber or plastic? My car does have plastic strips on the boot sides I think, but they are not rubber.

    This is my boot lid when I dismanted it.

    The boot did leak somewhat, but not sure if it was from this seal as it seemed to do the job reasonably well.

    It's a bit hard to tell but you can somewhat see the black plastic strips already there. Is this the strips people refer to, or is that something else?

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Those thin plastic strips are there on the boot flanges to press into the foam boot lid seal. If you change to the pinch weld method they are removed and the metal channel holding them is hammered flat!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Actually, the hard plastic bits go with the foam solution (repos can be bought if they are cracked).

    The wide rubber strips with ribs on (as originally used by the factory and also available as repros) are the alternative solution. Simply replace the plastic bits with them, without using the foam. If you plan to use them then, unlike with the "pinch-weld" method, don't hammer the seams flat as the rubber strips need to crimp into them.
    Last edited by Budge; 27th August 2017 at 04:05 AM.

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    Actually, the hard plastic bits go with the foam solution (repos can be bought if they are cracked).

    The wide rubber strips with ribs on (as originally used by the factory and also available as repros) are the alternative solution. Simply replace the plastic bits with them, without using the foam. If you plan to use them then, unlike with the "pinch-weld" method, don't hammer the seams flat as the rubber strips need to crimp into them.
    Not easy to find good reference for the rubber strip version. . .




    https://citroenid19p1958.wordpress.com/page/6/

    To me it looks like an afterthought, untidy and guess what, cars using this version still rotted the lower bootlid. The inner support panel on the bootlid creates a double skin with the outer skin - moister will still collect here and eventually rust through. Maybe OK when used with an aluminum lid?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    I have a reproduction closed cell replacement of the original sponge. Seems good. No water and very little dust entry. It was very bulky making closing the boot tight at first but fine after a few days with the lid closed. Best solution I have seen. David
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    Well based on all this I think I will try the reproduction seal and see how I go with it. I assume its easier to mount the seal on the boot lid before mounting the boot lid on the car.

    Have people used the same sort of adhesive as you would for a under bonnet insulation?
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    they are a bustord to fit Bryce. Only attempt with the boot lid off! I used rubber/contact glue and you need to find a way to clamp them down so they take up the shape they are supposed to fit to. I used plastic Bunnings clamps and flat dowel to push and hold it in place along the lock end, where the biggest profile is and flat, and to take up the shape it is meant to, and still some more glue when it pulled away later.

    I think Craig (UFO) used books as weights on the top of the lid and pressed it down but he has it in his resto thread I think? Craig?

    Trial fit it first and again and even again to figure out which way you need to go, The section closest to the window fits the easiest, it is the tail lock side and especially towards the corners there that don't want to behave I found, where the profile of the flat section switches to the shape of the boot sharply. Use some glue that that doesn't set immediately, otherwise you could be screwed. I have reglued mine and still it pulled up, you need to jam the seal as far into the outer lip of the bonnet as you can get it, they do require some effort to get to fit properly when installed and as you are trying to adjust the lid to close also.
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 30th August 2017 at 08:43 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Agreed they are a bastard to fit. Contact adhesive is now where strong enough. Use either sikaflex or my preference Soudal T Rex Fast Grab. The T Rex is cheaper, less toxic , claimed stronger and lasts in the tube pretty much indefinitely unlike Sikaflex.

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    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    As previously stated, the original foam boot seal was Pallas and export cars only, it was open cell foam and rubber coated. The non pallas cars had the 4 rubber strips.

    The replacement foam seal now available are made of closed cell foam, but unfortunately suppliers like Der Franzose want to wrap them in shrink wrap to make transporting easier, but the folds and creases won't come out, despite what DF say to the contrary.

    I've imported some foams, together with some bootlids in a friends H van that arrived recently, so they are undamaged and unmarked.

    Modifying the boot opening to fit a different type of seal is really just butchering the car, and completely unnecessary, as the replacement seals don't absorb water. The plastic moulding finishers are readily available from suppliers like Der Franzose.

    best regards,

    Greg
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  14. #14
    UFO
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    In 2010 when UFO was resprayed etc a new seal was installed. I think initially Wurth's Contact Adhesive was used. We probably would have been better off using spit. Within a few months I removed the boot lid, laid it on rugs on the loungeroom floor, cleaned it of old adhesive and refitted the (closed cell foam) seal with Sikaflex. Waited a day or so for drying and refitted. It's never even looked like falling off again.

    Here is pic of while it was being fitted first time.

    More boot by Craig, on Flickr
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    Fellow Frogger! brycedunn's Avatar
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    Thanks all. Did anyone else have trouble with the seal being crushed in transport? Might be hard to find a supplier who won't bend them. Good to know about sikaflex too. I won't bother with normal adhesives. I'm assuming the regular sikaflex adhesive is ok?

    e.g. Sikaflex Adhesive - 252, 310ml, Black - Supercheap Auto
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