Beware CX Jacks!
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 24 of 24
Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By David S
  • 1 Post By DoubleChevron
  • 2 Post By gerrypro
  • 1 Post By Dan Robins

Thread: Beware CX Jacks!

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default Beware CX Jacks!

    This is what can happen if you jack the car remove a front wheel then operate the steering lock to lock!Beware CX Jacks!-dsc_0001.jpgBeware CX Jacks!-dsc_0002.jpgBeware CX Jacks!-dsc_0003.jpg
    Of course the car crashed to the ground when the jack flew across the garage. No Mechanical damage but some slight panel on the drivers door and sill.
    Starting the engine and placing the height control in the high position gave me enough room to get the trolley jack under so that I could raise the car and refit the wheel!
    What was I doing?----- an adjustment to the cam to set the straight ahead position of the steering coupling!
    Note the dreadful weld quality of the post to the base plate.

    Advertisement
    Cheers Gerry

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    MAITLAND NSW AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    451

    Default

    Hi Jerry

    It never was much of a jack, even when used on a GS........

    I've generally done the steering coupling adjustment out on the road, put the car on high and reach in through the wheel arch.

    What ever way you do it its a mongrel of a job.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    8,280

    Default

    Also, pull the centre of the air intake tower so the drain tube is not in your way. Then reaching in to adjust the eccentric is a little easier. I always placed a heavy wooden block under the chassis before reaching in.
    Greg likes this.

  4. #4
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    8,766

    Default

    Wow, I'm so glad you weren't underneath it. Not as glad as you were I imagine!!

    I'd never been game to use one of those things as an active jack for the CX or the BX! In fact I've never used one at all come to think of it. I jack it up on the suspension, then drop it onto a proper axle stand.

    Good no-one was hurt and hope the damage was trivial.

    You didn't mention embarrassment or damage to reputation!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    15,319

    Default

    I barely trust those jacks to change the wheel on the side of the road... I'd NEVER use one at home in the shed More dangerous than that is they all bend around the base so will not be stable. There bases never stay unbuckled if use on soft ground (eg: a roadside).

    seeya
    Shane L.
    smiffy1071 likes this.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    6,627

    Default

    I had a little DS3 come off its stupid scissor jack the other day when I had a wheel off. It rolled and took the skirt off with it. Apart from that no harm done. I wish makers would stop fitting rubbish jacks.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Hi Jerry

    It never was much of a jack, even when used on a GS........

    I've generally done the steering coupling adjustment out on the road, put the car on high and reach in through the wheel arch.

    What ever way you do it its a mongrel of a job.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    It is actually a two person job. I ended up doing it your way. The first clamp bolt is easy, but the second needs someone in the cab to hold the wheel at 180 degrees to loosen the second. Then to hold it at 90 degrees to adjust the cam. Then start the engine --- do up the first clamp bolt and then 180 again to do up the second.
    On your own it is a nightmare. 'She who Must be Obeyed' was very helpful after she had finished berating me for dropping the car on the ground!
    Cheers Gerry

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Wow, I'm so glad you weren't underneath it. Not as glad as you were I imagine!!

    I'd never been game to use one of those things as an active jack for the CX or the BX! In fact I've never used one at all come to think of it. I jack it up on the suspension, then drop it onto a proper axle stand.

    Good no-one was hurt and hope the damage was trivial.

    You didn't mention embarrassment or damage to reputation!
    I used it all the time for little jobs involving a wheel off. The extra strain on the jack came from turning the wheel lock to lock ---- a big No-N0!
    No, I would never consider getting under a car without placing it on ramps or stands!
    Cheers Gerry

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    BTW, Does anyone have a spare CX jack that they do not want?
    Cheers Gerry

  10. #10
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    8,766

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    BTW, Does anyone have a spare CX jack that they do not want?
    I probably have one. PM me an address and I'll post it over if you haven't already found one.

    Promise you won't use it though!!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I barely trust those jacks to change the wheel on the side of the road... I'd NEVER use one at home in the shed More dangerous than that is they all bend around the base so will not be stable. There bases never stay unbuckled if use on soft ground (eg: a roadside).

    seeya
    Shane L.
    Have you ever seen one with a straight base? Even the GS jack which has seen very little use at all has the base shaped so that most of the load is carried centrally on the plate. The outer edges of the plate are only there for stability. It is a pity that the jack head of the GS has a different clip. I have two of those.
    I received word this morning that a replacement is on its way. Many thanks to John W over there in WA!
    Cheers Gerry

  12. #12
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    8,766

    Default

    Hopefully it IS a CX jack! It came with the CX years ago but I've never actually checked.....

    They seem to be designed to allow for rotation as one side of the car lifts in a wide arc. They are also designed for paved surfaces - wouldn't be too flash in mud. But then they aren't too flash anyway...
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    John, if it has the same clip bracket as the photos above ( the separate piece that is broken off ) it will suit a CX! The GS clip is quite different!
    Cheers Gerry

  14. #14
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    8,766

    Default

    That's it I think. Of course it is posted now....
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Essendon
    Posts
    496

    Default

    Regretfully, I need to state the obvious.

    Jacks, hydraulic or mechanical are designed to be used in one plane only for one purpose only and that is to change a wheel. No lateral loads whats so ever is to be placed on them. And, every owners manual will tell you to ensure that you chock the wheels and you do not get under the car.

    So, let's not complain about "flimsy" jacks when in appropriately used.

    Regards,

    John

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    Regretfully, I need to state the obvious.

    Jacks, hydraulic or mechanical are designed to be used in one plane only for one purpose only and that is to change a wheel. No lateral loads whats so ever is to be placed on them. And, every owners manual will tell you to ensure that you chock the wheels and you do not get under the car.

    So, let's not complain about "flimsy" jacks when in appropriately used.

    Regards,

    John
    I Knew that there would be one person that would insist on taking the moralistic high ground.
    Cheers Gerry

  17. #17
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    22

    Default

    I always carry a block of wood in the boot. If I have to change a wheel I remove the spare, jack car up and push spare under the frame with the block of wood across the tyre. Remove punctured tyre and push that under frame, put the wood on it, pull spare out and put on car. That way if the jack fails the car will just come down a couple of inches. If I need to do anything I'll lower car until it is touching the wood so it has some support.

    I never put anything under a supported car, wheel nuts, wheel brace etc, you never want to have to reach under the car, keep things behind you. I have seen a car fall and they drop in a millisecond. Even pushing the spare under or placing the wooden block you always want to be handling the side, not have your hand between them and the car. Hope this is helpful to anyone worrying about getting stuck somewhere.
    MelanieYlang likes this.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Robins View Post
    I always carry a block of wood in the boot. If I have to change a wheel I remove the spare, jack car up and push spare under the frame with the block of wood across the tyre. Remove punctured tyre and push that under frame, put the wood on it, pull spare out and put on car. That way if the jack fails the car will just come down a couple of inches. If I need to do anything I'll lower car until it is touching the wood so it has some support.

    I never put anything under a supported car, wheel nuts, wheel brace etc, you never want to have to reach under the car, keep things behind you. I have seen a car fall and they drop in a millisecond. Even pushing the spare under or placing the wooden block you always want to be handling the side, not have your hand between them and the car. Hope this is helpful to anyone worrying about getting stuck somewhere.
    The issue here is not about being moralistic and judgemental. It is about a piece of equipment that is designed to lift a car being made very poorly and not really up to the job it was designed to perform. The car did not fall off side ways! the base plate skidded out to the side, broke the weld and then broke off the attachment clip on the jack head.
    Incidentally had I been working under the car it would have been raised on my pyramid base car stands. I was not!
    Last edited by gerrypro; 26th July 2017 at 09:10 AM.
    Cheers Gerry

  19. #19
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    The issue here is not about being moralistic and judgemental. It is about a piece of equipment that is designed to lift a car being made very poorly and not really up to the job it was designed to perform. The car did not fall off side ways! the base plate skidded out to the side, broke the weld and then broke off the attachment clip on the jack head.
    Incidentally had I been working under the car it would have been raised on my tripod car stands. I was not!
    Yes, absolutely agree Gerry. As you say this is about a poorly made piece of equipment that's not up to the job, I suppose that's why the post was headed: Beware CX Jacks. But, of course, it could be that at some point in time someone could find themselves stuck by the side of the road and needing this piece of equipment to get going again which is why I chipped in with a bit of friendly advice. Obviously there's no need to take this advice, people can do what they want, it's just what I do.

    So I can't see why you interpret this as being 'moralistic and judgemental'. If I had wanted to adopt that sort of tone I would have said; 'Take more care, you jerk'.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    What you say is absolutely true. It limits the danger to the moments in which the spare comes out from under the car and the replaced wheel goes back in under to take its place. There is still an element of danger during this swap over time frame, and should the jack fail at that time just as one reaches under to pull out the spare one is still vulnerable!
    One could also state that to further the safety during the use of this type of jack that a12 inch x 6 inch x 3/4 inch piece of hard wood placed under the base plate of the jack would help to stabilise the load should one be caught changing a wheel on less than solid ground. One could even use a router to carve a square into the wood to match the base plate! There are all sorts of lengths one could go to! Who knows one could even call the RACV and let them take the risks!

    To add one more rider concerning lifting a CX. When lifting the front wheels, there are only two places that can carry the weight of the car without damaging the structure of the shell or the longerons. One is the designed jacking point which obviously is taken by the jack, and the other is the flat area of sub frame directly adjacent to the lower control arm of the front suspension. Concerning the latter position, the use of the height lever does not gain enough clearance to be able to slide the spare in easily, and in order to do so one would have to get partially under the car to reach. This is dangerous!
    Last edited by gerrypro; 26th July 2017 at 10:31 AM.
    Cheers Gerry

  21. #21
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,189

    Default

    Surely it is not a jack but an adjustable stand. Run car up to high, put stand in appropriate spot ensuring it firmly supports the vehicle. Loosen wheel studs, lower car height to lift wheel from ground, swap wheel etc.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Surely it is not a jack but an adjustable stand. Run car up to high, put stand in appropriate spot ensuring it firmly supports the vehicle. Loosen wheel studs, lower car height to lift wheel from ground, swap wheel etc.
    Yep! Did all of that! Just do not turn the wheel from lock to lock when supported on the Jack Stand!
    Cheers Gerry

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    MAITLAND NSW AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    451

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    What Craig has just correctly stated is what makes the jack unstable........

    The base plate insn't flat because if your changing the front wheel, you wind the jack down till it touches the ground, and put the car into low, so the jack tilts over as the other side of the car sinks to the ground. If the base was flat, it would bend up as the car and jack tilts.

    By having rear trailing arms, this alters the wheelbase, and the car wants to move its position regardless of the handbrake, as the rear arms lower into the wheel arch, further destabilising the jack.

    The back is different, as you do need to jack up the car, because if you lower the car, the wheel goes up into the wheel arch and you can't get the wheel out.

    I would never use that type of jack on any vehicle in a workshop situation, and If I did, I wouldn't admit to it on AF! A good floor jack is the appropriate jack for the workshop.

    Jerry, this is not criticism, but I can't work out why you had the wheel off to do the straight ahead on the steering flector. It's always done out on the road, stop the car and put the car on high, remove the rear wheel arch flap, and the air intake sock and drain tube to give you more space (thanks David), and reach in to the two fixing bolts, and the eccentric adjustment.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    2,599

    Default

    I had the wheel off to give me a little more access, easier to get the arms in and easier to see with my 70 year old eyesight! As stated I did finally use the method you state with the help of SWMBO. I did not have to remove the intake tower or the flexible drain. All can be done through the wheel arch. I do not have a sock fitted to the tower, just its frame.
    You are correct about the shape of the base plate. It is meant to rock with the change of angles as the car descends form high to low, and the weight is taken by the centre portion where the shaft is welded in. I cannot see that the trailing arms make any difference to the angle of the jack stand. The cars position is governed by the front wheels being locked by the handbrake and any chocks that may be fitted to the grounded front wheel. Chocking the rear wheels does no good what so ever as they need to swing and roll fore and aft. The distance from the front contact patch to the jack stand does not change.
    Cheers Gerry

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •