C4 VTS (206GTI180 engine) Major electrical fault
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Thread: C4 VTS (206GTI180 engine) Major electrical fault

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default C4 VTS (206GTI180 engine) Major electrical fault

    The engine won't start and the first observation is that the fuel pump does not run. Diagbox tells me that there is a problem with all the coils, all the injectors and a variety of other engine management components on the engine. A print of the errors runs to 6 pages.

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    I tried running actuator tests and the only thing that seemed to work was turning on the engine cooling fan.

    I examined the wiring loom and connectors to the ECU and everything looks ok.

    I suspect a problem with the ECU its self.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Battery voltage and condition would be the first easiest check. Then check the grounds.
    Other than that, I've got no insight.
    1984 505 Executive Auto

    206 GTi 180 - '804 Cat Cams, Jenvey DBW 48mm ITB's, Emtron KV8 ECU, HP Electronik PDM, AIM MXS Dash, Custom Wiring Harness. AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, PeugeotSport Baffled Sump, Oil cooler, Quaife LSD, E85.

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    Previously, 2x 504 Wagon, 505 Wagon, 505 STi, 405.

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Thanks

    Battery is good and the engine cranks well. There is no voltage between the engine assembly and the chassis even when cranking.

  4. #4
    COL
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    Sounds to me like there is break in the electrical system somewhere, could be as simple as a fuse or maybe a dodgy connection.

    A multi-meter and a circuit diagram will go a long way to helping you sort it out.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    Thanks

    Fuses are good. A circuit diagram would be nice.

    I did a search today for similar faults and the possibility of a faulty relay in the engine bay fuse box was raised.

    When I get a second pair of hands I will check whether the 30A injection fuse is getting power when the engine is being cranked.

  6. #6
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    Could it be just one of the connectors on the ECU that needs a squirt with cleaner and reseating?

    Edit: God I'm thick, sorry you've checked this.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    For whatever use this may have - it's for a 1.6 petrol C4 C4 VTS (206GTI180 engine) Major electrical fault-1.6-petrol.jpg

  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    Thanks

    Confirmed. The a relay in the engine bay fuse box (pt no 6500CK) is not doing its job so the injection fuse is not being supplied with power.

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    Sounds like you are on to it. Here's another page for the 1.6 C4 VTS (206GTI180 engine) Major electrical fault-gestion.jpg

  10. #10
    Tadpole Gman's Avatar
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    Hi
    Notice a engine Bay fuse box on eBay,heaps cheaper
    than buying new.
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/172771938055



    Sent from my iPhone using aussiefrogs

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Thanks for the diagrams and the link to a secondhand replacement on ebay.

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    Mine has just done the same to me. When I got it a while ago, it would not start (it was at the wreckers, with 105,000kms on the clock). Scanning brought up cam position sensor - wrong, they done have one on the 1600cc engine, they use the crankshaft position sensor. I now have a new spare one of those! I had a 206 in the drive at the time, swapped the coil pack, and voila! Smooth as.
    The windscreen washers don't work: I've established that the pump is ok, there is 12 volts on both wires, which I think is relay 4 in the fuse box stuck in the operated position. So I bought a supposedly working one from Aus (I'm in Auckland), fitted it today, and the engine wouldn't start. It would crank, but not fire. When I put my old unit back in, the damned thing now won't turn over. Does anyone know, are the fuse boxes (bit of a misnomer, since they are more than that) programmed? Anyone had any experience of this, or got any ideas?

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Attachment 98014

    Hi Guys,

    Diagbox can give all sort of misleading faults, and while one of the faults may be the real problem, the others are all knock on problems from the original.

    If there is no power to the fuel pump, and no power to the fuse F5 in the engine fuse box, I think you need a new fuse box. This is a very common problem.

    There is a set of relays that are part of the circuit board, and theses often burn out. They are not replaceable.

    They are often on ebay UK. Uk post can be a killer.

    The problem with a second hand unit is it's likely to suffer the same problem as yours.

    A new Genuine part from France is around $365.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    Last edited by Greg; 14th July 2017 at 06:16 PM.
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    They are not replaceable.
    Not entirely true. A number of members have sourced equivalent pin out and coil voltage replacement relays and successfully replaced the faulty units.

    The aircon compressor clutch relay is a particular weakness.

    However it does require the deft use of a soldering iron and some electronic knowledge.

  15. #15
    Tadpole
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    Thanks.

    Only 0.03 volts going to both the injection and fuel pump fuses when cranking.

    I have fixed a few 406 D9 air con relay failures but at my age and with a failing level of dexterity I could not replace the relays on the engine bay fuse box.

    I am thinking of a workaround where i intercept the trigger from the ECU to power up the fuel pump F5 and injection equipment F10 by trawling through the information in Citroen Sedre wiring diagrams. Heavy going but there is a treasure trove of information in there.

    There are two candidates for wires between the ECU and fuse box:

    at ECU connector 48V MR pinout F2, a wire called 1229 "engine main relay control" and
    at ECU connector 32V GR pinout F3, a wire called 1226 "engine power relay control".

    One of these probably controls the relay in the fuse box and could be turned to controlling an external relay as used in injection systems back into history.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Robmac,

    With respect, given that many of the members on Aussie Frogs have trouble knowing what car they have, I stand by my advice that they are not replaceable........

    When it comes to electronics, there is probably nothing that can't be done, but from where I stand they are soldered into the circuit board, and not fitted into a socket for remove and fit replacement.

    Robmac, if the best contribution you can offer this forum is to try and pick faults with other postings that offer a genuine contribution to the members problem, you could do well to keep you criticisms to yourself.

    Best regards

    Greg
    Caisson likes this.
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Hi Robmac,

    With respect, given that many of the members on Aussie Frogs have trouble knowing what car they have, I stand by my advice that they are not replaceable........

    When it comes to electronics, there is probably nothing that can't be done, but from where I stand they are soldered into the circuit board, and not fitted into a socket for remove and fit replacement.

    Robmac, if the best contribution you can offer this forum is to try and pick faults with other postings that offer a genuine contribution to the members problem, you could do well to keep you criticisms to yourself.

    Best regards

    Greg

    Greg,

    Take what I have said as a learning curve. And stop being so defensive.

    It may well save the OP the hassle of purchasing a new BSI and the need to initialize it.

    There are a number Afers who have replaced relays in both Peugeot and Citroen BSIs, especially compressor clutch relays.

    Air con problems - 406

    Af is about sharing knowledge and not about berating other members.

    PS
    I did point out the need for some electronics and soldering skills.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Robmac,

    You obviously have no knowledge about what you post.....

    The engine fuse box is totally different to the BSI, and your confusion with the two components shows you are a complete dic.

    Stop posting
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  19. #19
    Tadpole
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    robmac,
    when you say 'initialize', what do you mean by that? And how does one go about it?
    Thanks,

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Languid View Post
    robmac,
    when you say 'initialize', what do you mean by that? And how does one go about it?
    Thanks,
    Some BSIs need to be coded to Ecu .

    I don't have particular product knowledge on the C5 to be sure if this is the case.

    Greg would know for sure.

    On the Toyota Estima this is definitely the case. And the solid state output chips are replaceable. Along with the relays. I've had first hand experience on this vehicle.

    In hindsight I could have chose better wording.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Hi Robmac,

    You obviously have no knowledge about what you post.....

    The engine fuse box is totally different to the BSI, and your confusion with the two components shows you are a complete dic.

    Stop posting

    Greg you are most insulting and seem to have an abrasive personality.

    And have little regard for the spirit of AF

    I can see your rudeness has been perfected over a number of years and has now developed to an art form.

    In 13 years on AF. I've yet to see a member with 401 posts behave as badly as you have.
    Last edited by robmac; 15th July 2017 at 05:40 PM.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Moderator Please put a stop to this slanging match. It is not why we are here.
    Cheers Gerry

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Moderator Please put a stop to this slanging match. It is not why we are here.
    It's already in hand, at my instigation.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Good!
    Cheers Gerry

  25. #25
    Tadpole
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    This is the Fuse box in the engine bay, not the BSI. I need to replace it because RL4, which supplies power to the front & rear washer relays, appears to be permanently activated and supplying 12 volts to both washer wires all the time. I'd have a crack at de-potting & replacing the relay, but I cannot find anything to identify R4 on the board, so I bought a second hand board which is supposed to have come from a working car Unfortunately when I installed it, the engine would crank but not fire: when I reinstalled my original, the car starts to crank, then chatters & stops. Clearly, the two faults are related somewhere, and I suspect that the replacement unit may have upset the BSI, but I don't know what to try next.

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