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Thread: My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special

  1. #76
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    Hi Ramon,

    My DSpecial looks quite 'normal' compared to your beautiful DS23. I was lucky enough to see it at last year's Concours and WOW.

    And I admit, you and I share the same mechanic so I got another look at it.

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    All the best with the event, and I hope to see lots of photos.

    Kind regards,

    Syd

    Quote Originally Posted by ramonm View Post
    Hi Syd

    Your DSpecial is looking fantastic -
    I love how the colour and lack of embellishment show off the shape and lines.

    Pity we won’t see you on Sunday..

    in any case - Good Stuff !!

    cheers

    Ramon
    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

    Previously owned Frenchies -
    1976 Citroen GS 1220
    1997 Peugeot 306 XSi
    1995 Citroen XM Series II V6 (Vert Vega)

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Sorry Phil, both you and Mark had replied whilst I was composing my reply - which certainly was not aimed at your subsequent good advice.

    This is of course my opinion, the buckets on my own car were in very poor condition and have been painted using a plastic primer and satin topcoat. There are so many things wrong with my own car when it comes to originality, much that was not of my doing but I live with it. This car (Syd's) is a standout for originality, something I personally place above any restoration, a car that has gently aged since leaving the factory - The danger in renewing any single component is that you highlight it, where does it end. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
    Hi Chris,

    Your words are too kind. Kevin has done such an amazing job in maintaining this car that I wish to maintain it to a similar standard.

    I will be renewing the interior with some new seat covers (original style). And then try to ensure that the car is running for another 44 years. That would make me so happy. To balance this with a view of using the car on a regular basis is indeed a challenge. But one that I am willing to try.

    Kind regards,

    Syd
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    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

    Previously owned Frenchies -
    1976 Citroen GS 1220
    1997 Peugeot 306 XSi
    1995 Citroen XM Series II V6 (Vert Vega)

  3. #78
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    Some photos of the arguably most beloved French saloon with arguably the most beloved German saloon....

    My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-1520151340947.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-1520151389133.jpg
    brycedunn, ramonm and k eeles like this.
    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

    Previously owned Frenchies -
    1976 Citroen GS 1220
    1997 Peugeot 306 XSi
    1995 Citroen XM Series II V6 (Vert Vega)

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsowner84 View Post
    Some photos of the arguably most beloved French saloon with arguably the most beloved German saloon....

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    Syd, If you need more garage space you can send the old white one back to Buderim - I would take great care of her!

    Had a trip down to Junee mid Feb and I can tell you the C5 is a lot cooler and quieter than 'our' D Special in the heat.

    As an aside those light buckets were a straw colour when I bought her in 1992. When I was renewing the seals and repainting them I talked it over with Lance and he assured me that the colour was 'normal', however, the end result was a shade darker than the original (? as in 1992).

    Cheers Kevin
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by k eeles View Post
    Syd, If you need more garage space you can send the old white one back to Buderim - I would take great care of her!

    Had a trip down to Junee mid Feb and I can tell you the C5 is a lot cooler and quieter than 'our' D Special in the heat.

    As an aside those light buckets were a straw colour when I bought her in 1992. When I was renewing the seals and repainting them I talked it over with Lance and he assured me that the colour was 'normal', however, the end result was a shade darker than the original (? as in 1992).

    Cheers Kevin
    This pictures of brand new DSs leaving the factory clearly show the colour of the headlight buckets:
    My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-javel2.jpg
    My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-livraison.jpg
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    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Syd,
    The housings are not Gris Rose - they were just unpainted plastic and the colour varied quite a bit. Gris Rose is too dark.
    It's a much lighter colour.
    Cithrotello - quite a perfectionniste and well respected - also agrees that the light buckets closest colour match is AC140 gris rose.
    As the attached picture shows.

    "Il faut tout démonter, faire peindre les plastiques. Pour cela, j’ai demandé au peintre d’utiliser la peinture AC140 gris roue"

    http://www.citrothello.net/rafraichi...nnels-ds-6875/

    My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-tek-phares-directionels-57-big.jpg
    Last edited by harrisson_citroen; 13th March 2018 at 09:15 PM.
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    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  7. #82
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    Hi Phil,
    I too am a great admirer of Citrothello's work.
    But it does not mean it's right.
    Here are some pics from my 71 DS21 BVH Pallas resto.
    Everything is NOS - as you can see the colour is a long way from AC140.
    Cheers,
    Mark...
    My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-img_20180116_152152.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-img_20180116_152120.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-img_20180116_112431.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-img_20180116_112425.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-img_20180116_112421.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-img_20180116_105118.jpg
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Phil,
    I too am a great admirer of Citrothello's work.
    But it does not mean it's right.
    Here are some pics from my 71 DS21 BVH Pallas resto.
    Everything is NOS - as you can see the colour is a long way from AC140.
    Cheers,
    Mark...
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    Mark,
    Certainly, the ones in your pictures are perfect and new.
    The problem is some of the local DSs , probably due to 40year plus of sunlight and dust have acquired a yellowish tinge that in my opinion doesn't suit the original intent, specially when the rest of the car is repainted. I found that specially with darker duco colours like bleu delta the gris rose works well as it matches the rims.
    And to my surprise my Guru Cithrotello seems to agree!.
    Lets keep them beautiful, no matter how.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Phil,
    I too am a great admirer of Citrothello's work.
    But it does not mean it's right.
    Here are some pics from my 71 DS21 BVH Pallas resto.
    Everything is NOS - as you can see the colour is a long way from AC140.
    Cheers,
    Mark...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi Mark,

    Thank you for your photos. I think with a good and patient wet sanding and polishing I hope to get the headlight housing similar to yours. The colour is quite similar to mine (albeit in fabulous condition).

    Once again thank you for your guidance.

    Regards Syd
    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    Mark,
    Certainly, the ones in your pictures are perfect and new.
    The problem is some of the local DSs , probably due to 40year plus of sunlight and dust have acquired a yellowish tinge that in my opinion doesn't suit the original intent, specially when the rest of the car is repainted. I found that specially with darker duco colours like bleu delta the gris rose works well as it matches the rims.
    And to my surprise my Guru Cithrotello seems to agree!.
    Lets keep them beautiful, no matter how.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using aussiefrogs mobile app
    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

    Previously owned Frenchies -
    1976 Citroen GS 1220
    1997 Peugeot 306 XSi
    1995 Citroen XM Series II V6 (Vert Vega)

  10. #85
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    Hi Harrisson (Phil),

    It's great to see this suggestion. It does give me options in the future. The Gris is a great touch on the darker colours and not too shabby on plain old Blanc 😉

    I agree that Australian Sun and halogen bulbs would have taken its toll but I will try to wet sand and polish and see how that goes.

    First I will need to review how to remove the headlight housing.

    Once again thank you for your suggestions and guidance. You, Mark and others make it so enjoyable to have a D. It is very much appreciated.

    Kind regards Syd

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using aussiefrogs mobile app
    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

    Previously owned Frenchies -
    1976 Citroen GS 1220
    1997 Peugeot 306 XSi
    1995 Citroen XM Series II V6 (Vert Vega)

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Phil,
    I too am a great admirer of Citrothello's work.
    But it does not mean it's right.
    Here are some pics from my 71 DS21 BVH Pallas resto.
    Everything is NOS - as you can see the colour is a long way from AC140.
    Cheers,
    Mark...
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    Mark,
    Thanks for the pics - they clearly show the original plastic is nowhere near AC140 not even close!!!

    These images are very important for those interested in keeping their cars historically correct. The shame of very respected restorers is when they stray from original and make dubious claims to accuracy which in turn becomes accepted and blindly followed. We lose a part of the true history.

    I would never criticise anyone for personal choices when restoring, many reasons for straying from original but I do feel it important to be aware and acknowledge if making claims to accuracy. I for one am guilty of the former. . .

    All credit to Mark, anyone who has seen his work on both the multi award winning '69 DS21bvh and now his '71 DS21bvh will attest to his attention to accurate minute detail. These cars are an exemplar of what can be achieved by one man.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  12. #87
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    .... as oppossed to hundreds of bods in a factory! I know all about it : )
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    Thank God I'm a Fwenchman harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    But then we need to factor in every viewers difference in the quality of their computer screens, because if I put the pictures side by side on mine, the factory pictures are a closer match to cithrotellos than the nos
    My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-javel2.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-tek-phares-directionels-57-big.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-livraison.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-img_20180116_112421.jpg

    If you scrutinise the factory pictures you'll note the bucket colour is almost identical to rim colour.
    Thereby my theory that possibly ALL, including NOS, buckets have suffered some yellowing departing from the original colour, due to the 4 decades since they were made?
    And therefore - although I don't intend speaking in his name - I suggest Cithrotello chooses this colour from his years of dealing with DS, believing it is closest to the- original -shade. Do not forget he would have seen hundred of buckets by now in all stages of aging or decay. He has such an eye for detail that I would question why he would decide on a colour which is not the right one.

    Actually, I might email and ask him this very question.
    Last edited by harrisson_citroen; 14th March 2018 at 04:42 PM.
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    Warm autumn day stalking a wonderful collection of cars...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-img_20180317_134201.jpg  
    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

    Previously owned Frenchies -
    1976 Citroen GS 1220
    1997 Peugeot 306 XSi
    1995 Citroen XM Series II V6 (Vert Vega)

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    Harrison it could be also quite possible there was more than one version of the buckets!

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Harrison it could be also quite possible there was more than one version of the buckets!
    Of course it is, and quite probable. But the production of these light buckets only lasted 68-74 so only 6 years. So there wouldn't have been that many variations.
    The important point to consider here is that all factory photos of new DS's indicate a grey shade was predominent. I have since then researched it further and found large quantities of original pictures which concur with the grey shade very close to the wheel colours.
    I think we should keep an open mind and not see one set of NOS light bucket - which is now a the youngest 44 years old and oldest 50 years old - as the absolute colour reference, when so many eye witnesses such as me can say different.

    This is pretty entertaining anyway, hey!

    You missed me didn't you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    I think we should keep an open mind and not see one set of NOS light bucket - which is now a the youngest 44 years old and oldest 50 years old - as the absolute colour reference, when so many eye witnesses such as me can say different.

    This is pretty entertaining anyway, hey!

    You missed me didn't you?
    I've missed you my Leetle Fwench Fwend

    A friend turned up at home earlier in the week, he owns an immaculate well preserved DSpecial- seriously original car. I took photos because even the underbonnet stickers are original and intact - as you would know these were originally a paper sticker and never intended to last merely educate where to put oil/coolant etc. Anyhow I digress. . .

    This is a montage of a pic of his very original headlight bucket/ Mark's NOS bucket and a couple of freshly painted wheels in AC140 - even if you make allowance for different cameras, different lighting etc. there is no way you could ever see the buckets as being the same colour as the wheels, on this we will have to agree to disagree


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-headlight-bucket3.jpg  
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    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Yes Chris, my point exactly. The montage shows 2 wheels which have been freshly painted, but both differ in the colour that had been used. And the two buckets are 45-50 years old........
    I am talking here of the original colour of the buckets when built in the 70's, and my point was that if you wish to restore a car as close to the original, then why not do as it was intended.

    Some of the pictures below are from Citromuseum, and fully documented, unrestored, low ks cars where you can compare light buckets, wheel colours and air cleaners which are gris rose:
    My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-nik_1184.jpg My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-nik_0884.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-kangourou-bi-iode-70-71-1-.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-000314264_illustration_large.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-000314252_illustration_large.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-310.jpgMy new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-french-market-finds-across-europe-1476934670360.jpgClick image for larger version. 

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    In all these, including original pictures from the factory, none of the buckets show this yellowish colour often seen on aussie cars, which I believe is due to aging of the plastics.

    It is particularly obvious in the factory pictures of the blue delta 1330000 mth car where you can compare buckets and wheel colours as it comes off the assembly run, as well as the white DS without hubcap on the assembly.
    Last edited by harrisson_citroen; 18th March 2018 at 10:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    Some of the pictures below are from Citromuseum, and fully documented, unrestored, low ks cars where you can compare light buckets, wheel colours and air cleaners which are gris rose:
    This is all great fun of course, but AC140 is not gris rose (the colour used for the air cleaner and steering wheel shaft).

    There was a time when wheels were painted gris rose (AC136) - just like the air cleaner. But then there was also a time when wheels were painted AC140 (gris roue) - a very different colour to that used on the air cleaner.

    I'm with Mark and Chris on this one: I've just got an old light bucket one on the underside scrapped off a bit of the top plastic layer. looks like gris rose is a good match to me. I also got some metal polish and polished an area clean. Again, gris rose comes up pretty close. lastly i sprayed an area with an old can of gris rose cellulose - made up about 15 years ago when you could still get AC colours. Pretty good match. Looking at all the dark nooks and crannies and under bolts and nuts, there is nothing to suggest that the original colour was mid grey and faded/ bleached to a warm grey.

    I've got wheel rims in 136 and in 140 and there is a world of difference. I also translated the Citrotello text. He says he got 'terrible results' ? Guru's can make mistakes. i think he means AC136.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    He says he got 'terrible results' ?
    Ah, Ah, Ah,! There goes the vagaries of using Google translate!
    When in Fwench we say :
    "Un travail sympa, facile et on obtient un résultat terrible"
    it means the result is great. A bit like "Good Shit"
    Last edited by harrisson_citroen; 19th March 2018 at 07:00 AM.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    I'm with Mark and Chris on this one: I've just got an old light bucket one on the underside scrapped off a bit of the top plastic layer. looks like gris rose is a good match to me. I also got some metal polish and polished an area clean. Again, gris rose comes up pretty close.
    Hum........Mark and Chris are saying it is NOT Gris Rose....... I'M saying it is Gris Rose. So "you're with me on this one" right?
    It pays to read the whole thread.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

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    I have been following the thread - honest

    I can see at post 62 you mention gris rose, but at post 81 you say AC140 gris rose. It probably wasn't helped by referring to Cirothello who says he used AC140 Gris roue. This lead Mark and Chris into a desbate about AC140 (posts 82, 86 and 92).

    If you're saying you meant AC136 gris rose all along, then we're all in agreement (except Mark - post 65 refers - he's can't be in our gang) and it's the guru who is wrong BTW Citrothellos photos look like gris rose (AC136) to me!

    I'm going to paint mine 'Garrow'.

    Budge

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    I found a clean unfaded area and asked my local 'car colours' dude to make up a matched aerosol can. Problem solved.
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    Firstly apologies to Syd for this hijack - we should have opened a new topic much earlier in his thread.

    You're all wrong and I'm right

    Let's keep it simple, there is no AC paint match to the buckets end of story - they were never painted but a molded plastic!!

    I would concede as forumnoreason (Steven) has alluded that there may have been slight colour variations by batch, but always a soft satin grey with a leaning to beige. They were never a match to the wheel colour or the aircleaner or any other painted part on the car. Trust me, colour has been an important part of my profession for nearly 50 years.

    If originality is of no concern go with a nice AC 000 Chameleon which will take on the colour of it's surroundings and be a match to wheel colour. . .



    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My new purchase. 1974 Citroen D Special-img-4875304b07.jpg  
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    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  25. #100
    Thank God I'm a Fwenchman harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post

    You're all wrong and I'm right


    Cheers
    Chris

    Allright then
    Last edited by harrisson_citroen; 19th March 2018 at 04:09 PM.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

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