Last Hydraulic Citroen produced yesterday
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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Default Last Hydraulic Citroen produced yesterday

    The last Hydro Citroen ever quietly rolled off the production line yesterday, a C5 Tourer produced at La Janais in Brittany. It ends 62 years of continuous hydropneumatique suspension forLast Hydraulic Citroen produced yesterday-la-derniere-citroen-c5-fabriquee-l-usine-psa-de-rennes-la-janais.jpg Citroens.

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    That is very sad seeing I've been driving hydraulic citroens since 1975 when I bought my first GSpeciale. I suppose we will just have to wait and see what this new suspension feels like when it comes to Australia in one of the new models. I wonder if we will ever get larger models like the C5 or larger again? Maybe we will be driven towards having to purchase an SUV or something like that.

    I would have preferred that they had kept hydropneumatic suspension and teamed with a good electric or hybrid drivetrain but what would I know.

    Ken
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    I wonder if it will go "straight to the pool room" aka Conservatoire?
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    Sad day indeed...
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    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    What is particularly sad is the the latest version of Citroen's hydraulics, is a very smart and simple setup, that works extremely well, no height correctors, no suspension settling, and 200,000Ks + sphere life.

    But you never know, I read just recently that there may well be future DS models fitted with Citroen's hydraulics, especially SUV type vehicles?

    I for the life of me can't understand why it's taken PSA so long to start building SUVs, and still not proper 4WD cars as with other manufacturers?

    An up market Citroen SUV fitted with hydraulic suspension would have to have been a real winner. Self levelling, and adjustable ride height would be a real bonus............

    We're constantly told about Peugeot's supreme ability at company management, but it seems to be completely lacking when it come to keeping up with market trends?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    Graelin, marc61 and almostfrench like this.
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

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    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    BTW,

    It's not really clear that this C5 has hydraulic suspension?

    What is says is that this is the last C5 to be produced at Renne. The end of the line for all C5's except China.

    I found this on the net (Translated):

    For the employees of the PSA group, it is a page that turns in the history of the Breton car site. The latest CitroŽn C5 has been released on Thursday June 1st from the production lines of the Rennes la Janais plant. This model takes its reverence after 9 years of career and more than 430 000 copies produced.

    After 9 years of career and more than 430,000 units produced, the CitroŽn C5 of the second generation leaves its reverence. The very last copy was released this Thursday morning, June 1, of the assembly lines of the PSA factory in Rennes.

    A highlight, especially as the shutdown of this successful sedan also marks a technology that will have marked the history of the brand: the hydropneumatic suspension, popularized since 1955 by the mythical DS. (That should be 1954?)

    The CitroŽn C5 remains produced in China for the Chinese market. Marketed since 2010 in this country, it has been produced locally to more than 200,000 copies to date. Produced only with a traditional metal suspension, the C5 China has just undergone a major modernization outside and inside, presented at the Shanghai show last April.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

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    C5 China has just undergone a major modernization outside and inside
    Beaten all over with the vulgar stick actually.....

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    What are the vehicles in the background, pray?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    ..., is a very smart and simple setup ...
    What I saw of the C5 rear subframe while googling them a few months ago looked far from simple to make and god forbid repairs ...


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    Quote Originally Posted by fnqvmuch View Post
    What are the vehicles in the background, pray?
    Looks like Peugeot 5008s...
    2011 Citroen C5 - 'La Barge'

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    That factory is at 25% capacity. They even do railway work there. Watch out Vauxhall.

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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Rennes has been the "large" car plant for PSA for quite some time. It specialised in the old large car platform (PF3) for many years.

    607 (swapped to Rennes from Sochaux in 2009), C6, C5, 407 (and Coupť), 508 and 5008 and I think it's slated for both the E-Mehari (which is not large...) and C5 Aircross.

    The cars in the back of the picture are indeed 5008s. We may see them here at the end of the year...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Hi Guys,

    What is particularly sad is the the latest version of Citroen's hydraulics, is a very smart and simple setup, that works extremely well, no height correctors, no suspension settling, and 200,000Ks + sphere life.

    But you never know, I read just recently that there may well be future DS models fitted with Citroen's hydraulics, especially SUV type vehicles?

    I for the life of me can't understand why it's taken PSA so long to start building SUVs, and still not proper 4WD cars as with other manufacturers?

    An up market Citroen SUV fitted with hydraulic suspension would have to have been a real winner. Self levelling, and adjustable ride height would be a real bonus............

    We're constantly told about Peugeot's supreme ability at company management, but it seems to be completely lacking when it come to keeping up with market trends?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    Completely agree, why on Earth didn't they build a SUV with hydropneumatic suspension instead of all those middle of the road cars that got them absolutely nowhere.

    I wonder what what happened to this Landrover A Landrover with DS suspension . Nice project!
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    Cheers, Marc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Hi Guys,

    What is particularly sad is the the latest version of Citroen's hydraulics, is a very smart and simple setup, that works extremely well, no height correctors, no suspension settling, and 200,000Ks + sphere life.

    But you never know, I read just recently that there may well be future DS models fitted with Citroen's hydraulics, especially SUV type vehicles?

    I for the life of me can't understand why it's taken PSA so long to start building SUVs, and still not proper 4WD cars as with other manufacturers?

    An up market Citroen SUV fitted with hydraulic suspension would have to have been a real winner. Self levelling, and adjustable ride height would be a real bonus............

    We're constantly told about Peugeot's supreme ability at company management, but it seems to be completely lacking when it come to keeping up with market trends?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    Its called a Range Rover!
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    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi fnqvmuch,

    Firstly I was taking about the hydraulic system itself, as used on the both C5 Models and the C6. Its a very simple package and very adaptable to the price of the car i.e.: On 4 cylinder C5 X7s with hydraulics, there is only one height sensor on each axle, and the shock absorbers are in the spheres. Consequently there are only 2 solenoid valves in the Hydraulic tank, one for each axle. On the larger engines there is a height sensor on each wheel, and 4 solenoid valves in the hydraulic tank. The shocks are in the spheres.

    On the C6 the setup is the same as the bigger engined C5's, but the shocks are seperate from the spheres, and electronically controlled, adding another dimension to the setup.

    I have also seen in the parts catalogue that some C5's have have 3 height sensors, 2 on the front suspension, and 1 on the rear roll bar?

    As for the C5 rear suspension cradle, on the first series, it comprises 3 main components. The centre is an aluminium extrusion, and that has 2 end castings welded to it, which locates the rear trailing arms. It's quite a simple setup.

    Replacing the dreaded rear arm bearings is certainly much easier on the first C5's, than on any other trailing arm Citroen since the CX.

    The C5 X7 is a multi link arrangement, and is more or less identical whether it uses Steel Springs or Hydraulics. The change to a multi link rear suspension also eliminated the need to have the handbrake on the hydraulic cars on the front wheels.

    Other motor manufacturers must be scratching their head as to why Citroen gave up such a special suspension system?

    Probably having a boss whose surname is Peugeot says it all.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

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    Member MELso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post

    Other motor manufacturers must be scratching their head as to why Citroen gave up such a special suspension system?
    Quite - it would've been a great suspension system on big SUVs (as already noted) and big SUVs = big profits. High tech sells right now, and Citroen could have resumed its mantle of being the Apple of cars (fruit-themed) - the car company that thinks different.

    Instead, PSA continues to plonk the Citroen chevrons on undistinguished %^!4boxes that are usually technologically and dynamically off the pace, even at launch (of Citroen's/DS's current range, only the Cactus and the Picasso models have any character to them and even they're boringly conventional cars underneath), and then wonder why they have to do savage discounting within a few months in a way that, say, VW doesn't have to do.

    Citroen deserves a better fate!
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    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    You hit the nail firmly on the head. Even the likes of Jaguar, Maserati, & Porches now have big SUVs, but nothing to distinguish them apart from other SUV's than a badge!

    But PSA doesn't even have 4WD on the agenda for their SUV's unless its electric hybrid tech, and electric motors for the rear wheels.

    The fact than they can seemingly rationalise that the DS range is in the same spirit of the original DS has me lost.

    I had some one tell me that the chrome boomerang on the windscreen pillar on a DS5 is in reminiscence of the chrome original DS boot hinges....... FM? where is the technology?

    PSA had a press release some time ago before the release of the C5, and they said there would be no more large cars from PSA with McPherson strut front suspension. So what happen with the DS5.

    It was a real joke that you could go into a Citroen showroom and see a DS5 2.0 HDI, and a C5 2.0. HDI sitting side by side, and the price tag on the DS5 was $10,000 more expensive. They both had looks, but the C5 was dripping with technology.

    Is PSA so stupid that they can't see this?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

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    Setright wrote in CAR magazine years ago in 1989 "The car, any car must survive despite the lack of welcome based on inherited loyalties" ie it must stand up against ALL opposition. I am a great believer in hydropneumatics and have benefitted from the undoubted evolution in control systems and sphere diaphragm chemistry we are now "blessed" with hydractive 3+ and its variations. Simple Ds got along on 1 sphere per wheel and an accumulator. What more did we need ? Even the sainted SM was so equipped. Road conditions have changed so that cornering G forces are more valued by most customers ( consumers ). Once Citroen's fame was in luxury grand Routiers, but the typical mass worldwide product is a small FWD hatch saloon....made for export. No nationalistic fervour enters the purchase.
    One could say the X7 system with NO return of leakage bellows on the cylinders was technically a backward step.
    I wonder when the patent rights expire ??? Maybe just maybe Toyota or some mass marketer will enter the fray with a hydropneumatic system. They already make a similar self levelling system on top line Land Cruisers.

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    It'd be a better bet to lobby the Asian car companies to make innovative steps with hydropneumatic suspension than PSA. Times have changed, the European manufacturers are slow to introduce genuine steps forward now and ought to be jailed for the diesel emissions scandal. Look at who started shipping fuel cell cars recently - Hyundai, Toyota with the Mirai and now Honda with the Clarity. Technologically they offer zero emissions, long range, rapid refuel, loads of torque etc. Meanwhile PSA has nothing, apart from milking the current trend for battery cars in Europe, which are short range, take hours to recharge and if 3 people in a street own them it overloads the local electricity network!
    Cheers, Marc.

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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Probably having a boss whose surname is Peugeot says it all.
    Tavares...no
    Imparato...no
    Jackson...no

    Just not getting it.
    Regards,

    Simon

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Tavares...no
    Imparato...no
    Jackson...no

    Just not getting it.
    Only Peugeot I can find is towards the bottom of this list.

    https://www.groupe-psa.com/en/automo...ervisory-board

    I would imagine the Managing and the Executive Board members would have more influence.
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    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    Isn't it funny that the the 2 dissenters to my statement re Peugeot management of Citroen, appear to be Peugeot owners?

    Guess this pretty much confirms what I said?

    Boss was probably the wrong word to use, but PSA until just recently, was under the control of the Peugeot family. PSA is Peugeot Sociťtť Anonyme, it's not difficult to see why Peugeot models always had more chrome, more body styles, & more everything, than Citroen.......Wonder why?

    The only reason the C6 was built as a Citroen was because big Peugeots were considered less popular than big Citroens when polls were taken

    You also have Xavier Peugeot as the present product manager for Citroen:

    (1964-), son of Pierre II Peugeot, younger brother of Thierry Peugeot and Marie-HťlŤne Roncoroni, a cousin of Jean-Philippe, has been working for PSA Peugeot-CitroŽn since 1993. "Lion brand" announced in early 2012 that Xavier Peugeot was appointed Product Manager. This appointment seemed quite obvious and logical for the one who was originally, with its teams, the new image of the manufacturer since 2010 and its upmarket. Thanks to him, the success of this strategy, led by the 3008, 508 and RCZ, was able to succeed. Since the end of 2014, after completing his job as product manager at Peugeot, Xavier Peugeot is in charge of the CitroŽn product. He is also President of the Peugeot Adventure since 2009, an association created by his father Pierre Peugeot in 1982.

    Wonder where his allegiance lies?????

    Given his heritage, its not that hard to guess.

    best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Sorry to say all the current cars have no passion or spirit...
    1961 Citroen ID19(2010~), Holden Frontera(R.I.P 2002-2014), Honda Accord EURO(2006~)

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    Meanwhile, McLaren is recycling the Xantia's Hydractive and calling it Proactive

    How Swaybars Work - Why McLaren Supercars Don't Use Sway Bars

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    Just watched this on Youtube so I could see the comments ... pages and pages of them and scanning ... They really show the ignorance of Americans re this subject, I saw about 3 references to Citroen ... ONLY 3. COOL was the most common comment, followed by "Didn't Toyota do that ?" .......... This really is just British Leyland's Hydragas set up mounted to work transversely instead of fore/aft.
    Anyone remember the BMC Hydrolastic system ? "Floating on fluid" really meant a static sealed system that fought the front axle's displacement against the rear's.
    Suddenly everything old is new again.

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