123 distributor - mode setting
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Thread: 123 distributor - mode setting

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    Fellow Frogger! petitepoupée's Avatar
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    Default 123 distributor - mode setting

    Need to find out the mode (advance curve) setting for 123 installation into a "DY" engine.
    Anyone know what it should be?
    I suspect it's "B", but would like to hear from someone who's actually been there, done that...

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    Thanks,
    Geoff.
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Sorry no first hand experience with the DY motor but. . .
    123ignition

    Appears to be dependent on years so DY is 'A 'up 5/69 and 'B' after 5/69

    A 0600 5400 31,0 100 300 10,0 Ducellier 4254A DY DL DT DV 10/'68-5/'69
    B 0600 5400 31,0 100 300 10,0 Ducellier 4291A B DY DL DT after 5/'69 DV after 9/'72

    AF member Hawk is the Australian agent for 123 ignition - maybe a PM to him for confirmation.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Sorry no first hand experience with the DY motor but. . .
    123ignition

    Appears to be dependent on years so DY is 'A 'up 5/69 and 'B' after 5/69

    A 0600 5400 31,0 100 300 10,0 Ducellier 4254A DY DL DT DV 10/'68-5/'69
    B 0600 5400 31,0 100 300 10,0 Ducellier 4291A B DY DL DT after 5/'69 DV after 9/'72

    AF member Hawk is the Australian agent for 123 ignition - maybe a PM to him for confirmation.

    Cheers
    Chris
    Sorry, no first hand experience here either, but I hope I can help. I don't think it's 'B' if it is a DY engine. The dates in the 123 details don't relate to engines but to cars types - which is why 'DY' features more than once.

    When you fit 123, you are replacing the distributor the factory intended your car to have. You need to know what distributors were matched to which engines and when. So engines:

    There is a table in the early pages of Manual 814 that states that 'DY' engines were fitted to DS19 cars (saloon and/ Safari and either hydraulic or manual) between October 1965 and October 1968. These would have been some of the first 5 bearing engined cars and 1985cc. They were 84bhp. From October 68 the engine was uprated to 91bhp. These engines were marked DY2 and the cars were DS20s. Last change came in October 71 when the engine was uprated to 99bhp. these are DY3 engines.

    So how does that relate to the 123 info. that Chris posted? Well, more useful is the summary table of advance curves on page 5 of Op. D 210-00 in vol1 of manual 814:
    DY engines were married to a Ducellier 4169A dizzy or a Paris Rhone A158.
    DY2 engines were initially married to a 4254A or A224. However from 5/69 DY2 engines then had a 4291A or A251)
    DY3 engines kept using the Paris Rhone A251 and Ducellier 4291A (or 4291B)

    So:
    123 ignition position 'A' is for the first DY2 engined cars.
    123 position 'B' is for the later cars with a DY2 or DY3 engines.

    If your car engine plate simply states 'DY' then you should use 123 position '7'.

    Hope this makes sense! Off to pull my from wings apart now!
    Last edited by Budge; 21st May 2017 at 03:39 AM. Reason: Corrected 4251 to 4291
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    A closer look tells me it's a DY3 engine with an SEV/Marchal dissy fitted.
    Any further thoughts? And BTW - what engine swept volume does that indicate (please).

    Geoff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by petitepoupée View Post
    A closer look tells me it's a DY3 engine with an SEV/Marchal dissy fitted.
    Any further thoughts? And BTW - what engine swept volume does that indicate (please).

    Geoff.
    Hi Geoff,
    If the motor is original it would be 1985cc
    https://citroenclassics.files.wordpr...gine-codes.pdf

    Cheers
    Chris
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    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by petitepoupée View Post
    A closer look tells me it's a DY3 engine with an SEV/Marchal dissy fitted.
    Any further thoughts? And BTW - what engine swept volume does that indicate (please).

    Geoff.
    Apologies: it's the starters that are Ducellier or Paris Rhone. The dizzies are Ducellier or SEV/ Marchal.....

    DY3 engines were 1985cc and 99bhp. Assuming it's a standard engine, as factory made, then it's straightforward: it's 123 position 'B' you want.

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    Thread shift! If you put bigger 21 pistons into a DY3 motor would that turn it into a DX2?

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    Thanks Budge ... much appreciate the time you've taken on this; position "B" it will be, then.

    Cheers,
    Geoff.
    1974 D Special, 2015 Fiat Panda Twinair turbo 85hp (), 2011 VW biturbo camper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Thread shift! If you put bigger 21 pistons into a DY3 motor would that turn it into a DX2?
    I dunno, but if my aunt had testicles, she would be my uncle
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    Hi Geoff,Dont forget that your car has been upgraded to 2175cc,s
    Woody

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    Default 123 distributor - mode setting

    Well that's a game changer..... You would probably be better off with a position used for a 2175cc 'DX' engine. 6 or 9. 6 is for the early 'DX' 2175cc engines with the smaller valves so 9 (for the 'DX2') would probably be more appropriate but carb, power and rpm are factors. Most curves work but may not deliver optimum performance. You need advice from someone that in the same situation as you.


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    Last edited by Budge; 24th May 2017 at 08:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    Well that's a game changer..... You would probably be better off with a position used for a 2175cc 'DX' engine. 6 or 9. 6 is for the early 'DX' 2175cc engines with the smaller valves so 9 (for the 'DX2') would probably be more appropriate but carb, power and rpm are factors. Most curves work but may not deliver optimum performance. You need advice from someone that in the same situation as you.


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    Thanks Brian - & Budge. So do I have the smaller valves or what? At the moment it's a bit academic, as we're collecting the car this arvo (with the distributor set to "B") and are off tomorrow for a 3 month jaunt to WA.
    Will worry about it when we get back.
    By the way Brian - I'd like to fit the original intake silencer as the induction roar from the big-bore engine is at times (full throttle) a bit overpowering... would like to hush it up somewhat. Will contact you when we get back around September. The 2CV going well, we hope?
    Cheers, Geoff.
    123 distributor - mode setting-123_mode.jpg
    Last edited by petitepoupée; 25th May 2017 at 02:13 PM. Reason: addimage
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    No. The size of the inlet valve was increased across the range in October 1968 from 47mm to 49mm - so your DY3 engine would have had the 49mm ones fitted. Later 2175cc cars, such as the DS21 and DSuper5, would also have had the 49mm valves.

    In the absence of some solid, practical advice from someone that has uprated their engine AND fitted 123, then when you come to look at it again, I suggest you stick to the key point that you now seem to have a 2175cc engine. Have a look at what carb you have and this Group can advice on the best setting for that combination.

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    And don't forget some experimentation with the various settings is unlikely to do any harm at all .
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


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    Picked it up this arvo and it drives fine - doesn't feel any different to the previous (with contact breaker) distributor. Wasn't expecting any difference (and why should there be!), but the really interesting feature is that the installation has required the 123 cap to face away from the engine, so new, longer, leads were required. Have to say it looks a tad unusual, to say the least. No vac advance as yet as it looks as though that'll require removing the carby and drilling into an appropriate location on its body.
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    I haven't fitted 123 to mine yet, but I've never heard of that happening! Equally, I didn't know that the caps were 'handed'? Heard plenty of stories of distributors seated the wrong way round on the little cam inside the driveshaft though.....as it's slightly off centre. have you checked?


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    Hello, don't drill the carb body for the vacuum take off. If you have the insulator block with one common hole, drill sideways into that. Or just below into the manifold.
    Are you sure you haven't got the leads and cap arse about face?

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    Hi Jeff
    All you need to do is rotate the Dissy 180 degrees and relocate the leads.
    Woody

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