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Thread: Big 6 closer to smooth running.

  1. #51
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    I had a carby reconditioned once by a reputable carby specialist. They left the emulsion tube out of the main jet spray bar. The car would not run right ( 32PBIC Carby). So much for reconditioned carbs! Perhaps it should be pulled down and inspected very carefully! 1/4 inch of distributor adjustment of a 6 is a lot of displacement. If it is in the retarded position sure it will run more smoothly but it will also lack power and cook the exhaust manifold. Something you do not want to happen especially if it is the old cast iron manifold. Time the engine using the pin in the bell housing method and leave it at that!
    I had a missing emulsion tube once too, in the 32PDIST. It actually ran, if pretty poorly. I'm still trying to work out where it went, actually.

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  2. #52
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    Hi John
    My suggestion is try replacing the two main jets with slightly larger ones. From the specs I found it should have 120 main jets in each throat, so if you order two 125 jets and replace them and see what happens. Low cost and easy to do. I will give full instructions or Gerry or any local mechanic who is older and has worked on carbies.
    Remove the two brass plug carriers just above the throttle spindle each side, a bit of fuel will run out so catch with a rag. Unscrew the slotted jet and replace with new jet. Replace the plug carrier with the sealing washer fitted. Finished !
    On further thought, could anyone who has this carby tell us what arrangement it has with the main jets. Being such an old style carby, I am not sure if it has the main jets in the brass carrier OR if the brass plugs are just simple plugs only and the jets are fitted inside in the carby body in line with the brass plug hole. In the second case a suitable sized screw driver will be needed to go into threaded hole and the carby top will need to be removed to assist removing and refitting the jets in the bottom of the fuel bowl. Say 15 mins work.

    Jaahn
    6-cylinder (1954-55)
    Citroen 6 Cyl
    Carburetor Solex 30 PAAI
    Choke 32 - 24
    Main jet 120
    Compensating 280
    Slow running 45

    PS It could be any one or more of lots of silly suggestions but hard to say from my keyboard. But if it starts OK and accelerates reasonably without hesitation and normal power through the rev range then it is probably nothing silly !But if it has a slight occasional miss it could be a bit lean especially if it has had extractors fitted. Easy to test, just needs two jets and 10 minutes work.
    But adjusting the idle jets only affects the idle mixture. It will not affect the main driving mixture at all no matter how carefully you do it.
    Last edited by jaahn; 22nd April 2018 at 12:07 AM.

  3. #53
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi John

    On further thought, could anyone who has this carby tell us what arrangement it has with the main jets. Being such an old style carby, I am not sure if it has the main jets in the brass carrier

    Jaahn
    6-cylinder (1954-55)
    Citroen 6 Cyl
    Carburetor Solex 30 PAAI
    Choke 32 - 24
    Main jet 120
    Compensating 280
    Slow running 45
    It has the jets inside the brass jet carriers. Same as a 32/34 PBIC found on the four cylinder TA and on ID 19
    Cheers Gerry

  4. #54
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Also Solex made adjustable jets for their carbs. They replace the main jet carriers and have a needle valve in them that can be screwed in or out to vary the mixture. I would not recommend them for a 30PAAI with double throats and two main jets. It would be too easy to get the throats out of wack! Similar mixture variation can be achieved by raising or lowering the float level.
    Cheers Gerry

  5. #55
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    Thankyou for all the advice. This should be enough to go on for a while. I'm getting the 1913 French TH. Schneider ready for a 3 day rally in rural Victoria so I'll get back to the Big 6 after that.

    John

  6. #56
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    Default Jets an' things !

    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Also Solex made adjustable jets for their carbs. They replace the main jet carriers and have a needle valve in them that can be screwed in or out to vary the mixture. I would not recommend them for a 30PAAI with double throats and two main jets. It would be too easy to get the throats out of wack! Similar mixture variation can be achieved by raising or lowering the float level.
    Hi Gerry
    Thanks for the reply re the jet carriers. I have attached a couple of photos of the things for Johns information.

    As for the adjustable Solex jets, I do not believe they were 'genuine' but were commonly available 'back in the day' and I fitted a couple of them, to my Big15 and R750s. Certainly seemed to be a good thing to a young bloke in those days Indeed later on when I wanted one for some vehicle and could not find one, I made one using an idle screw out of a carby and drilled and tapped the carrier myself. They were available for Holdens also and I fitted some of those for others who had them.

    My experience of adjusting the float level to change the mixture is it is limited and affects the idle/progression more than the main system. But it is an important parameter in the carby adjustment.
    Cheer Jaahn
    A Solex main jet carrier assembly as removed. jet removed and sealing washer. jet marking, size 130(=1.30mm)
    Note; some old jets may have been drilled out so marking may be misleading !!
    Big 6 closer to smooth running.-20180423_102928-1-1.jpgBig 6 closer to smooth running.-20180423_102955-1.jpgBig 6 closer to smooth running.-20180423_103045-1.jpg

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    I was surprised at the wire in modern resistance leads , it measures 0.06mm diameter and is non magnetic ,
    Call that a wire , yuck ????

    Same as a hair on your head

  8. #58
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    Which is number 1 cylinder on Big 6

    I am still having a miss on the big 6 and doing timing etc after acquiring a new distributor cap through Lance at CCOCA.
    I've always thought that number 1 cylinder is on the right side if looking on the same side as when looking at the distributor.
    In other words - - number one cylinder is the one closest to the rear of the car.

    Firing order is 142635. I assume number 1 plug lead goes onto plug on right.

    An up and coming (lousy) mechanic, John

  9. #59
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    As far as I know .... No 1 is always flywheel end in Citroen documentation. I'm not sure what they did when they made the V8 version
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    As far as I know .... No 1 is always flywheel end in Citroen documentation. I'm not sure what they did when they made the V8 version
    Hi Shane
    A V8 has one bank in front of the other so that is clear. The front-most cyl is no 1 !! Only a rod big end width difference, but it is there Or am I missing something technical !
    Anyway the V8 Citroen remains a universal myth. No one has ever seen one????

    John, if you have it set up so it starts and runs allmost normally it will not matter how the plug leads go into the dist cap. So long as the firing order is correct and the first cyl fires on the mark you can have them setup any place on the cap and just adjust the dist to suit. On most cars unless the extras on the outside of the dissy body hit something.

    Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 1st July 2018 at 07:27 PM.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi Shane
    A V8 has one bank in front of the other so that is clear. The front-most cyl is no 1 !! Only a rod big end width difference, but it is there Or am I missing something technical !
    Anyway the V8 Citroen remains a universal myth. No one has ever seen one????

    John, if you have it set up so it starts and runs allmost normally it will not matter how the plug leads go into the dist cap. So long as the firing order is correct and the first cyl fires on the mark you can have them setup any place on the cap and just adjust the dist to suit. On most cars unless the extras on the outside of the dissy body hit something.

    Jaahn
    Thankyou Shane and Jaahn. I also checked a D motor which has 1234 on the tappet cover with 1 being closest to the front of the car - - where the flywheel is.

    No, the car won't start since I mucked about pulling plug leads off etc so I have to start from scratch which I will now do.

    Thanks again, John

  12. #62
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilberthenry View Post
    Thankyou Shane and Jaahn. I also checked a D motor which has 1234 on the tappet cover with 1 being closest to the front of the car - - where the flywheel is.

    No, the car won't start since I mucked about pulling plug leads off etc so I have to start from scratch which I will now do.

    Thanks again, John
    1,4,2,6,3,5 Is the firing order for a 6 Cylinder Citroen TA. Beware this firing order is different from a normal 6 cylinder engine which would be:-
    1-5-3-6-2-4
    Last edited by gerrypro; 2nd July 2018 at 04:29 PM.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilberthenry View Post
    Thankyou Shane and Jaahn. I also checked a D motor which has 1234 on the tappet cover with 1 being closest to the front of the car - - where the flywheel is.

    No, the car won't start since I mucked about pulling plug leads off etc so I have to start from scratch which I will now do.
    Thanks again, John
    Hi John
    Gerry has give you the correct 6cyl firing order information I am sure !

    My query is the firing order on the D motor. I doubt it is 1234. Usually 1342 on almost all 4 cyl motors. Only some small older Fords used the other firing order for some unknown reason due to the unusual crank fitted. Just saying to avoid more confusion.
    Jaahn

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi John
    Gerry has give you the correct 6cyl firing order information I am sure !

    My query is the firing order on the D motor. I doubt it is 1234. Usually 1342 on almost all 4 cyl motors. Only some small older Fords used the other firing order for some unknown reason due to the unusual crank fitted. Just saying to avoid more confusion.
    Jaahn
    That is not the firing order on the rocker cover! It is the cylinder numbering.
    jaahn likes this.
    Cheers Gerry

  15. #65
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    Are you still running the Lucas distributor?

    I had similar problems.

    The carburettor was given to a specialist for an overhaul but the misfires etc continued.

    I took the distributor to a venerable local auto electrician who had made a device from an old Champion spark plug tester. He earthed out the HT leads, inverted the cap & held an electrode inside it supplied with pulsating HT current. The inside of the cap lit up like a Xmas tree- arcing in 3-4 different directions along the plastic. New caps are not available so I installed a 123 Distributor. It's been running beautifully ever since.

    Need I remind readers about the myriad of Lucas jokes? e.g. my favorite: How can we guarantee world peace? Grant a world wide monopoly in perpetuity to Lucas Industries for manufacturing weapons.

    And my MGA has a Bosch distributor although the Fergie is still plugging away in orig form.
    Last edited by geodon; 4th July 2018 at 12:33 AM.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    Are you still running the Lucas distributor? I had similar problems. The carburettor was given to a specialist for an overhaul but the misfires etc continued. I took the distributor to a venerable local auto electrician who had made a device from an old Champion spark plug tester. He earthed out the HT leads, inverted the cap & held an electrode inside it supplied with pulsating HT current. The inside of the cap lit up like a Xmas tree- arcing in 3-4 different directions along the plastic. New caps are not available so I installed a 123 Distributor. It's been running beautifully ever since. Need I remind readers about the myriad of Lucas jokes? e.g. my favorite: How can we guarantee world peace? Grant a world wide monopoly in perpetuity to Lucas Industries for manufacturing weapons. And my MGA has a Bosch distributor although the Fergie is still plugging away in orig form.
    Gee that's interesting. I didn't know you could lose the smoke from a Lucas distributor cap. You didn't try a smoke replacement kit on it?

    Great things, 123 distributors.....
    JohnW

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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Gee that's interesting. I didn't know you could lose the smoke from a Lucas distributor cap. You didn't try a smoke replacement kit on it?

    Great things, 123 distributors.....

    John, my 2nd best Lucas joke is a photo of a empty jar with a Lucas label, part no. etc labelled "Genuine Lucas Smoke"
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    John, my 2nd best Lucas joke is a photo of a empty jar with a Lucas label, part no. etc labelled "Genuine Lucas Smoke"
    Do you have the words that go with the photo? Very special! I'll try and find them.
    JohnW

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    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  19. #69
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    Just for the record, dizzie cap failure isn't limited to Lucas. I have a 605 (or 2) with a Bosch distributor, and complete failure of caps, once they get up around 20 years old, has been a serious problem. Managed to get a couple of new ones (sold as a BMW part), which has solved the problem (hopefully at least until the 2030s).

    Cheers
    Alec

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    Thanks for all the replies. I have a new dizzy cap so I'll continue. I know that the electronic ignition would be good but I'll be persistent at this stage to stay with points till I run out of ideas.

    John

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    Another way to check the cap is to crank or if possible run the engine in the dark at night and observe. If there is 'arcing' visible across the cap it can be stopped by drilling small holes thru' the line of the arc. I have done it and it works !
    JohnW likes this.
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  22. #72
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    With my Bosch ones, arcing must have all been internal - there was no visible arc or spark!

  23. #73
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Another old trick to stop a dizzie cap internally tracking is to clean the surface thoroughly and spray it with hair lacquer. Lasts for a while and then needs repeating.
    jaahn likes this.
    Cheers Gerry

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