Gearbox "flaring" in 2010 C5 and other stuff
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  1. #1
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    Default Gearbox "flaring" in 2010 C5 and other stuff

    Heeding the advice on Aussie Frogs, I had the oil changed in the gearbox of my 2010 C5 at 70,000 kms. Penrite fully synthetic oil was used. The box was drained, topped up, given a run, drained again and topped up once more. About 8,000 kms later I began to get occasional "flaring" under hard acceleration between, I think, 2nd and 3rd gears, when the next gear up doesn't engage until I back off. The agents in Perth investigated and said that the gearbox computer needed resetting, and this they did, FOC. However it has occurred again twice in the last fortnight since the resetting. Should I be worried? And curiously, the vehicle came back after the reset suffering from quite bad turbo lag, usually, I think, when I try to accelerate after being on a trailing throttle. I've always been aware that there has been a slight lag in certain circumstances, but what I have now can be quite dangerous. EG. I was coming into a roundabout a few days ago and there was another vehicle coming in on my right. However I estimated I had plenty of time to enter the R/about well before him, but when I tried to accelerate, nothing happened. It appeared as though the engine had cut out for several seconds. Quite alarming. Can't see how resetting the gearbox computer can upset the turbo.
    And is there anyway the brakes can be made less sensitive to the slightest foot pressure? It is quite hard to manoeuvre the vehicle at slow speeds because they grab. Just wondering.

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! dieselman's Avatar
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    Transmission oil level too low.
    Leon

    1987 Peugeot 505 GTD
    2010 Citroen C5 3.0 V6 HDi
    2010 Citroen C5 3.0 V6 HDi (wife's car)

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I had the turbo lag in a 2005 2.2 hdi. Never sorted it out and yes it is very dangerous, not to mention embarrassing. There is supposed to be some sort of link with gearbox solenoids, but I don't know more than that. Shouldn't happen to a 80k car though.
    Best of luck, Erik

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Allen,

    Our Berlingo had oversensitive brakes, & was impossible to drive smoothly. After advice from a Citroen Technician mate, I changed the brake light switch. It fixed it instantly.

    What happen is the switch is supposed to adjust its self to the correct length when its fitted, and that length is locked when the switch is rotated. If the switch actually pushes the brake mechanism forward, and is locked with the centre plunger a little too long, it puts the brakes booster into a pre primed position and makes the braking way oversensitive.

    With your auto transmission, there have been problem with the valve body on some cars, and while most seem to go through life with never the slightest bit of trouble, there are some cars that the only cure is a new valve body (about $2,500 & that's not the dealer price).

    I know of a few cars that had a reconditioned valve body fitted, with no success.

    One consolation is that the valve body is not a big job to fit.

    Hope this helps?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    BTW, did the dealer get any gearbox faults with diagbox? There are other factor that can make the gearbox misbehave.

    A global test with diagbox might shed some light on the problem?

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger
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    2010 could be either RHR or RHH. Look in the VIN. If RHR, look at the vacuum piping for the turbo, specifically a Y-piece down the front of the engine. It cracks and you loose boost. If RHH, look for the thread re TassieC5's car.

    The gearbox flare, esp 2>3 slip when hot can be down to the valve block, but check the fluid level and brake switch first.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    I didn't get involved re the lack of turbo boost, cause it looks like it was something done while at the dealer.

    I had the vacuum union crack on our 2006 HDI, and the car drives like it's dead (which of course it is) with totally no boost at all. Its hard to even get it to drive up hills.

    I didn't think that was the case with this car??????

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  8. #8
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselman View Post
    Transmission oil level too low.
    About 500 to 750ml extra should fix that.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! dieselman's Avatar
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    Check the level with the motor running, otherwise it will be too low.
    Leon

    1987 Peugeot 505 GTD
    2010 Citroen C5 3.0 V6 HDi
    2010 Citroen C5 3.0 V6 HDi (wife's car)

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger
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    This is the vacuum pipe diagram for an X7 DW10B. Layout is very similar to the earlier cars, so worth checking.
    Maybe, it's not an issue on the later cars or maybe the Y-piece is better or different, but it was certainly a regular issue with earlier uses of the RHR engine, including on Picasso and Pugs.


    Gearbox "flaring" in 2010 C5 and other stuff-c5_x7_dw10b_vacpipes.jpg

  11. #11
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    Thanks to everyone for the replies. I'll check the 'box fluid level, just to be sure. Hasn't "flared" for a week, now. Think I'll take it back to Allpike in Perth in a couple of weeks for a further investigation. Can't figure why the turbo lag has only occurred since the gearbox re-program. It's only very occasional. The brake light switch suggestion is interesting. I'll have that checked out too. Many thanks again.

    Allen

  12. #12
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    With your auto transmission, there have been problem with the valve body on some cars, and while most seem to go through life with never the slightest bit of trouble, there are some cars that the only cure is a new valve body (about $2,500 & that's not the dealer price). Greg.

    There is one Automatic Transmission specialist on the Southside of Brisbane who recently did a valve body replacement on AW 6 speed C5 for $1500.00. He told me at the time that the valves in the body were modified and that the problem was that the valves were teflon coated and that coating was failing and causing the valve operation to be sticky, causing flaring and bumpy changes. I drove the car prior to its repair and it was by far the worst behaviour I've struck. The car behaved well after repair, unfortunately it has since been involved in an accident and written off.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Allen M,

    The Gayndah boys had a reconditioned valve body fitted to their AM6 gearbox, and that was done somewhere in Brisbane. It was fitted by a major Citroen repairer. It may not be the same repairer.

    Cont Cars fitted a similar unit to a friends AM6 gearbox, that was overhauled in Sydney, and it still gives problems. I know that Con Cars fitted a few reconditioned valve bodies, and now won't fit anything other than a new valve body.

    I'm not saying it can't be done successfully, but Peters Huth is very unhappy and so is our Sydney friend. The price looked attractive, but didn't deliver.

    As it's an Aisin gearbox, and used on many other vehicles other than PSA, you would think that there has to be a solution, but if Cont cars can't come up with a solution, the rest of us don't have much chance?

    The problem with bring in a valve body from France is that it way over the $1,000 import limit, so there is duty, GST and Customs fees. This alone adds over $500 to the price. GST is on the price of the part, and the freight and the duty on the part.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen View Post
    Thanks to everyone for the replies. I'll check the 'box fluid level, just to be sure. Hasn't "flared" for a week, now. Think I'll take it back to Allpike in Perth in a couple of weeks for a further investigation. Can't figure why the turbo lag has only occurred since the gearbox re-program. It's only very occasional. The brake light switch suggestion is interesting. I'll have that checked out too. Many thanks again.

    Allen
    You're not a left foot braker are you ?.
    I thought I had a similar problem with my Wrangler diesel automatic, until I eventually figured out that I had a smidgen of brake activating the lights............and cutting the fuel to idle.
    Oops


    Sent from my iPad using aussiefrogs

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