Pollution and Citroen 2CV6
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Thread: Pollution and Citroen 2CV6

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Pollution and Citroen 2CV6

    It would be one of the dirtiest , big twin chokes , full throttle ,and no cat converter

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    And the Tesla , no emissions ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renburg View Post
    It would be one of the dirtiest , big twin chokes , full throttle ,and no cat converter
    And the Tesla , no emissions ?
    Hi Renburg
    Duh where does the power for the Tesla come from ??? The thin air, the sun direct, or a dirty power station of some sort ???????????
    Jaahn

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    JBN
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    Measure the "emissions" emanating from your wallet and the answer will become clear.

    John
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    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    This is the thing that few politicians address ... the "Cradle to Grave" consequences ... like with the energy efficient lightbulbs.
    The *bit in the middle* is quite good, but the start and finish are Not Good. Populism, stupidity, or bribery? Probably ...
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

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    To say nothing of all that mighty throbbing, gas guzzling CitroŽn power

    In looking at modern cars, which are essentially a computer with a motor up front and wheels stuck on the corners, we need to ask about things like life cycle.

    Most of these will be obsolete, broken , beyond economical repair, or "no longer a supported application " in about 5-10 years, while the 2 CV will be chattering along as happily as ever ( give or take a bit of tinworm ). In the course of its life to date it will have already outlived many moderns.

    Occupants may not have survived being T-boned by a lorry, but that is another issue.

    A car makes a goodly percentage of the pollution it produces in its life in the course of being made. If thrown away every 5 years the life cycle pollution etc starts to look a bit ugly

    We silly old men are probably not quite the environmental vandals we're made out to be - my 404 and DS have outlived about 5 normal cars and the Austin Seven about 10. The amount of new tin/bog etc required to keep them running pales into insignificance beside the pollution generated by the extraction of plastics, rare earth, copper etc etc etc to make one of the new ones.

    Things like the Prius are in a whole new league of complexity and impermenance

    Andrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Renburg View Post
    It would be one of the dirtiest , big twin chokes , full throttle ,and no cat converter

    And the Tesla , no emissions ?

  6. #6
    JBN
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    My daily driver 2CV is the last of the French built ones - 1986. Bought in the UK in 1993 for GBP 1,500. I have done Sydney to Cairns, Sydney to Brisbane many times, Sydney to Melbourne many times and Sydney to Adelaide. I am on my second engine.

    My wife's 1995 Xantia VSX was bought in 2009 for $2000. We have added 100,000kms to that.

    Where we save on pollution is that we do not need to build new cars every few years to supply our motoring needs. We also do not need to ravage the planet to come up with the money to buy them. When we work out the fuel consumption and costs spread over 24 years for the 2CV or 8 years of the Xantia, they both come up fairly well as much of that petrol was bought at much cheaper rates than now. And the 2CV keeps appreciating each year. The Xantia is still insured for $6000.

    John

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    Apologies in advance if I am getting a bit theoretical here....but I suspect the cost of a new vehicle is probably a very good measure of it's environmental impact. Let me explain.

    The price of new car will be made up of the cost of labour, materials and the equipment used to make it. Presuming the cost of labour is now a relatively small component due to automation, what is in the materials and labour? predominantly steel, concrete and hydrocarbons (=oil) for the plastic. And where does the steel and cement come from? Iron ore and lime stone is dug up with big steel trucks burning diesel (=oil). The iron ore and lime stone is then turned into steel / cement, using, guess what, electricity (coal) and heat (coal).

    So your $100k electric car (or fossil fuel car) with 10 year design life pretty close to $10k per year of coal and oil before the electricity or liquid fuel goes in.

    Let's think for a minute about where electricity for electric cars comes from in Australia, at least for now. Because of the market structure (RET), with a fix amount of renewable energy is required each year. As new utility scale wind and solar enters the market faster than electricity demand increases, conventional coal and gas plant get's squeezed out. (observe the closure of Northern Power Station in SA and announcement of Hazelwood closing in VIC).

    So if there are more electric cars, they will not be powered by new renewable energy power stations any time soon, rather they will delay closure of the oldest, least efficient coal power stations. Ain't economics depressing

    Don't get me wrong, personally I think electric cars have a big place in the future. But for now, extending the life of a relatively small existing small to medium ICE vehicle is doing whole lot more for the environment (and our pockets) than crushing them early and buying something else. It might even be possible to drive to work or school o r the shops in something other than a 2 tonne troupe carrier. Crazy talk, I know.
    CXVingtCinq and jaahn like this.

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '71? Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    Andrewj ... I hears ya.
    One of the things I was alluding to in my post.

    I'm a big fan of environmental reforms, but so much hoopla is just propaganda, not meaningful reform.
    Thus the essential need for *Cradle to Grave* analyses and not populist mid-point positions.

    Then, when the biggest bit of your electric car dies (batteries) these are very expensive (by all definitions) to replace,
    and I gather the dead batteries are a cause for recycling concerns as well.

    Wouldn't it be *fun* if the gummint mandated all electric cars to ONLY be refuelled by renewables?

    Oh, more flying pigs.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

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    The tesla has 50 Kg of graphite in per car and he is getting it from dirty mining in China

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    I do my bit reducing polution by owning 5 cars (soon 6!) And only one of them at any given time gets driven by me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bertie View Post
    I do my bit reducing polution by owning 5 cars (soon 6!) And only one of them at any given time gets driven by me.
    That's been my strategy too. It seems to work!


    Cheers,
    Michael
    Cheers,
    Michael

    ____________________________

    Citroen Car Club of NSW - Member

    1974 Citroen DS23 non Pallas BW Auto/Carby with Air-conditioning [AC640 Delta Blue]
    1972 Citroen DS21 5SPD EFI Pallas [AC088 Blanc Meije]

    2012 Citroen C5 Exclusive 3.0L Auto Diesel [Noir Perla Nera]



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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyracer View Post
    That's been my strategy too. It seems to work!


    Cheers,
    Michael
    But do you use any of them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyracer View Post
    That's been my strategy too. It seems to work!


    Cheers,
    Michael
    That's a nice picture of all your cars. Are they the neighbours you employ to clean them?
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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    I would be very interested to see a proper test of a 2CV. I had my CX tested by the RTA as part of a club day where the RTA invited us as part of a research project. It performed so well they tested it twice to make sure. The addition of a 3 way catalyst took it to the same level as a modern car. I think a 2CV could be made to perform quite well, add 123 ignition and maybe a 3 way catalyst and you would be there.

    Then offset CO2 emissions with Greenfleet and you can drive with a clear conscience, and that goes for any car
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    Mine

    CX Prestige
    Toyota Prius

    In the family

    Xantia SX

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    These discussions go on and ignore the one significant fact.

    *80% of auto pollution occurs in the manufacturing process.

    The public are being hood-winked.

    The smaller the capacity of engine the less the volume of exhaust released into the atmosphere.

    BMW engineers have stated that manufacturers emission claims are fabricated because they run their own tests on competitors vehicles under real world conditions .
    They claim given vehicles available to the public they can't duplicate the results the other manufacturers claim!

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    Thank goodness you can still use them , dont the japs regulate them off the road ( old cars )
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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    Citroen ownership is very green.

    They spend so little time on the road, emissions are insignificant.

    With a wonderful correlation between the number you own and the number that are not on the road.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  18. #18
    JBN
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    There is no problem with 2CVs and emissions. The owners of 2CVs a either closet anarchists or open anarchists. Rules are to be broken or ignored.

    It is "normal" cars that cause all the problems. Look at ANY photo, from anywhere in the world, showing traffic jams and congestion in the context of air quality, emissions, pollution and you will NEVER see a 2CV in those photos.

    John
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    Saw a scene of some people walking down a street of Brooklyn, New York.. street lined with 4WD's.
    Just shows the real problem?

  20. #20
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berridale View Post
    Saw a scene of some people walking down a street of Brooklyn, New York.. street lined with 4WD's.
    Just shows the real problem?
    I don't want to be too sexist, but I always thought there would be problems with making vehicles 4 Women Drivers, particularly when their husbands/boyfriends get behind the wheel.

    John
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  21. #21
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    People actually should buy vehicles that suit real needs , rather than imagined needs or compensation for penis size or feelings of inadequacy?
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  22. #22
    bonnie sacer
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    the tesla is the electrical car, the emission of the gas has less pollution for the environment.

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! garyk's Avatar
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    Please, please ... don't make me make derogatory remarks about those Hulking Abominable Lumps that 99% of drivers around these here parts are driving. Fortunately, I ran into a Lexus $WD the other day (at least maybe I did, or maybe it was his fault) in the CX.

    I think the Citroen Had Enough and had to vent its spleen. Almost no damage to the CX, but the Rexus was wounded. Not badly enough, tho.
    Berridale and jaahn like this.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  24. #24
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    One down and so little time to get all the others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonnie sacer View Post
    the tesla is the electrical car, the emission of the gas has less pollution for the environment.
    Nice to hear from you bonnie! You are right about the Tesla - an electric car produces no emissions from the engine. The problem is with how the electricity that it uses is generated - has to come from somewhere. If the electricity is coming from an old inefficient coal-burning power station, is this an improvement over burning petrol in the car? It moves the pollution out of the city, but it still goes into the atmosphere!

    Cheers

    Alec

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