petrol c5 v6 2007 won't start
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Thread: petrol c5 v6 2007 won't start

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default petrol c5 v6 2007 won't start

    After a 2 months trouble free after fixing suspension pipes ,replacing seals on the cams and crankshaft ,yesterday the car refsed to start. It cranks but no sparks and apparently no fuel.The spark plugs are clean and dry.
    After running a test with lexia i got the following faults:
    p 0261
    p0082
    p0076
    p0011
    f99c
    After clearing the faults and running lexia again the only code remaining is f99c which ,by my understanding ,is related to the fuel pump.
    Searching on the internet for similar situations the culprit seems to be in the fuse box. Couldn't find one in the weekend and i'm thinking to order a new one from dealer.
    In the mean time has anyone had similar problems and can anybody help me with a diagram of the fuse box so i can do some checking ?
    Thanks

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Fuse box in the engine bay is called BSM. Should be a few threads if you search Aussiefrogs top right search bar.
    Are you looking for the in tank fuel pump wiring or some other culprit?

    Sent from my GT-I9195T using aussiefrogs mobile app

  3. #3
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    Hi Adrian
    Not sure what you are looking for but, the fuel pump is under a plastic hatch found under the rear seat. Remove the seat bottom and the round plastic "hatch cover" can be removed to view the hoses and wires going into the tank port. At this stage you should hear whether the pump is starting up for 5 seconds, when the key is first turned to start. It does not run continuously until the engine starts. You could also use a multi meter on the wires.
    In fact you should be able to drive the pump with the Lexia ! That's a challenge for you to do !

    By the way the BSI(BSM) is not just a fuse box. It has the relays for a lot of things that the computer switches on and of (that is most things )
    Jaahn

  4. #4
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    By the way the BSI(BSM) is not just a fuse box.
    The BSi is not what the previous poster was referring to.

    The "BSM" he was referring to is the engine fuse box under the bonnet - often referred to as a PSF1 or a BM34, among other names. It contains fuses and relays - including the one for the fuel pump.

    More often than not it requires replacing as its relays are not able to be changed easily.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
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  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    Hi, i call it "fuse box" just because i got more information on google about it doing so.
    I know the location of the fuel pump but because after numerous attempts to start it the spark plugs are still dry i assume the pump doesn't work for some reason.
    Corroborating with the fact that spark ia missing as well i assume that the cause must be on something that control both.
    On the internet i found somebody with the same problem and the cause was the.bsm.
    Now because the bsm board is covered in resin i need a internal diagram of bsm so i can check it at plug pins or at fuses terminals.
    It.would be great a diagram ahowing how the bsm is connected with the other parts of the car.
    Thanks

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger
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    Battery age and state of charge? Tried the second key to lock/unlock and start?

    There should be an inertia switch in the back of the engine bay. Make sure it has not been tripped.

    Test the supply to the pump at the tank unit before spending any money on another BSM. The pump itself may have failed. If the pump runs or can be made to run, check the pressure being supplied to the injectors.

    BSM is usually known as the engine slave unit but is a fairly dumb fuse/relay box. The smarts are in the BSI, which lives in the back of the glovebox. The BSI is VIN-coded, but the BSM isn't , so it is easily swapped if necessary.

    If a number of things have stopped working at once, check the over-sized 'maxi-fuses'.
    Last edited by David S; 6th February 2017 at 12:17 PM.

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    Tadpole
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    Tried to edit and change previous mess. and deleted instead. So ,again:
    battery and second key checked. I'll look for the inertia switch.
    I'll try to check the pump separately although the missing spark is still there.
    I've found a few people on the net with the same symptoms solved by changing the BMS. Quite annoying, I get all kind of messages for the most unimportant reasons and now i got nothing,just the economy mode mess. This shouldn't stop the car anyway.
    The BMS might be a 'fairly dumb fuse/relay' box but i've been quoted 580 $ for a new one by the dealer.
    Thanks

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Give me your Vin # and I'll give you a price ex France.

    I'll also try and get a wiring diagram as well, which will help you see what power is still working in the engine bay fuse box.

    The relay for the fuel pump in the fuse box is a constant problem.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    BTW,

    The BSI is the fuse box under that dash?
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    Hi Greg,
    VIN-VF7RCXFUJ76707697.
    Actually none of the relays on the bsm should be only for the fuel pump. Probably one of the relay sends power signal for both coil pack and fuel pump and maybe more circuits but we don't know because the car doesn't start.
    Thanks,Adrianpetrol c5 v6 2007 won't start-20170206_194615.jpg
    BSM is under the bonnet and BSI is behind the glove box.
    Last edited by adrian666; 6th February 2017 at 10:21 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Check shunt fuse in BSI if it's been shifted to the spare slot it will definitely not start.

    Sent from my GT-I9195T using aussiefrogs mobile app

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Another possible problem might be the Crank Angle Sensor CAS. If this has stopped sensing the crankshaft rotating, the engine ECU will not know the engine is turning and will not trigger any ignition or injector pulses hence no start.

    Cheers, Ken

  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    Nothing has been shifted in the car until it stoped working and the crank sensors checked. Ordered a BSM from uk.It would be great to have a diagram showing connection of bsm with bsi.
    Cheers

  14. #14
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    So did you find the inertia switch? It looks like this, although usually the flexible cap is red/orange in colour, and will usually be found on or near the firewall on the driver's side.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	inertia switch.jpg 
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    This unit is designed to cut fuel & spark in the event of a collision, but can occasionally be tripped for no apparent reason - happened to my son's Xantia last year. Just press down on the flexible cap to reactivate.

    Cheers

    Alec
    dimistyle likes this.

  15. #15
    Tadpole
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    Hi Alec ,couldn't find anything like this in my car.
    Ragards, Adrian

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    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Adrian,

    A new fuse box from me is $356.00 + local postage to you. The part no is 6500CK. It takes about 2 week & is ex France.

    Will come back later with a wiring diagram.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  17. #17
    Tadpole
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    Hi Greg,
    I've already ordered one from uk. Anyway I'll contact you in case i need some other parts.
    Regards, Adrian.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian666 View Post
    ... It would be great to have a diagram showing connection of bsm with bsi.
    Cheers
    That's not necessarily going to help you, because the BSI and BSM mostly talk to each via a multiplexed logic connection. You would be more interested in which fuses and pins on the slave unit are affected and then seeing if it is just the fuel pump affected or anything else related. The simplest thing to do without the diagram is to test the supply at the tank unit and confirm that the pump works.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Guys

    Most of the engine fusebox / relay units work the same. There are generally 2 non removable relays, and one relay feeds the fuse for the fuel pump. Its very simple. Ignition on fires relay and feeds fuel pump. There will be other fuses that are fed by the same relay, depending on each vehicle.

    The wiring diagram gives you a circuit diagram, so that you not working blind, and you can see what else is affected.

    The first thing to do is see if there is power to that fuel pump fuse when you try and start the car. Generally, no power means the the relay is RS.

    I had one car that the relay had failed and they had piggybacked power from another fuse to power the fuel pump.

    So yes, see if you have power at the fuse?????

    There are also people like Martin Bray, A twins & Riverside spares that keep all those used parts, though its a fairly common problem, so might be hard to find?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  20. #20
    Tadpole
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    I've checked in the cars handbook and i couldn't find any fuse for fuel pump but i might be wrong.On the bsm you can't check anything except the fuses being impregnated in some kind of resin.

  21. #21
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    This French handbook may help. F2 30A.
    petrol c5 v6 2007 won't start-fuses.jpg

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Adrian,

    Yes ur right, there is no fuse for the fuel pump in the handbook, so it may be a maxi fuse that's underneath. I don't have a list of the maxi fuses and what they protect, except that one is for the hydraulic suspension pump.

    The F2 in the French listing previous says fuel pump, but the handbook says F2 is the horn?

    I tried to start up my Windows XP computer where I can get into Citroen wiring diagrams, but no luck!

    So it may not be wired through a relay as most others. With out a wiring diagram your working pretty blind.

    I'l keep looking.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  23. #23
    Tadpole
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    Hi Greg, I've checked all the fuses including the.'maxi '. All good.I'm pretty sure it's the BSM but I've been wrong before. So ,i have to wait about2 weeks.
    Kind of had enough of it. Bought this car about6 months ago and it was full of peoblems. Actually hasn't been on.the streets for more than 3 wweks.
    Suspension piping, rocker cover leaking ( took 3 attempts to fix it), crankshaft seal leaking, camshaft vvt solenoid leaking, driver side window working intermittently. Now this. I wonder what's left, gearbox probably (knock on wood ).
    Regards,Adrian

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Adrian,

    Know how you feel.........

    Firstly the fuse is F5 for the fuel pump. If your getting power at that fuse while you crank it over, then its not the fuse box. I've got my computer working, just need to load a printer driver, and I'll post the diagram.

    We have a Pluriel that doesn't get driven that often, it had a similar problem, but it turned out to be the pump had jammed. There was power to the pump but no pumping :-((

    I got the pump to work by suppling a seperate power to the pump and alternating the earth and positive, the pump freed it self & is still working.

    Anyway check that fuse!

    You have a very nice car there. We had a series 1 V6 with the ZF gearbox, but I've been told that the V6 with the Aison 6 speeded is so much nicer. Ours was a great car while we had it, but it went to my cousin, and she had problems like the rocker cover leaking, and aging catalysts. I was very happy when she sold it.

    I have a mechanic friend that work on his own, and he made the statement that its not fixing the problem on modern Citroens, its' finding it!

    I have to agree. Diagbox is great, but it can lead you astray as well. Diagbox would make a good used car salesman, caus it tells you a lot of bullshit sometimes :-))

    Best regards,

    Greg
    jaahn likes this.
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  25. #25
    Tadpole
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    HI Greg,
    You're right,it is F5. I don't know how i missed it. I'll check when i'll get home.
    Another think ,the car had the log book with all the revisions up to date.

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