Bah. Humbug.
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Thread: Bah. Humbug.

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    Default Bah. Humbug.

    Due to an excessive Mot intake at a gathering, my colleague was not able to drive home.
    So I drove him home in his Jaguar, having not taken my C5HDI to the gig.

    And yet again I wondered "why?"

    Its quite a nice looking car, reasonably finished.
    I dunno how much he paid for it (second hand), you know, one of those black four door sedans.

    I still don't get it. It didn't do anything very poorly, or anything particularly well.

    I prefer:
    the seats/ergonomics/comfort
    brakes
    suspension/ride
    performance/torque
    gearbox/change points
    steering (including the wheel)
    of the C5.

    (I had looked at a Jag before buying the C5. It was in a car yard.
    Um, they said, "you can't test drive it, coz it isn't going.")

    My friend must have paid 7 - 10x more than what I paid for the Citroen.
    Regardless of affording the price of the Jag, I'd still have an old C5.

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    I really don't understand the "allure" of cars like the Audi, BMW, Benz, Jag (et al). Minor variations on a theme?
    I've driven quite a few, been a passenger in a few, (and I've owned a BMW and an Audi) , some were more appealing than others, but at the medium/bottom end, they are light years away from a Citroen. Oleo-pneumatic versions in particular.

    My addiction started in my late teens. I wonder how many car aficionados would own/drive Citroens if they actually owned and operated one, rather than relied on populist guff and keeping up appearances?

    I'm sure that in France, even real estate agents drove Citroens (or are BMW/Mercedes obligatory everywhere??)
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    D Special 1974
    Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    1986 2CV6
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    DS23 1973 Pallas

  2. #2
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    I've never driven a modern car more comfortable than the C5. Yet I'm surrounded at home by Mercs and Beemers, whose owners have sought them out without having a clue how they could have had a nicer drive for less dosh. But then they wouldn't be displaying their wealth and sexual attractiveness. That seems to be important for the particular immigrants who have turned Mercedes into a big brand.

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    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    I've driven a few BMWs and Mercs, (care of relatives!) and they're nice enough plus there is the status thing attached in the experience but ultimately they just don't cut it with the vibe of a classic like a real D. I'd like a late C5 but that can wait. Anyone on this site has a massive bias really don't they?

  4. #4
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    Due to an excessive Mot intake at a gathering, my colleague was not able to drive home.
    So I drove him home in his Jaguar, having not taken my C5HDI to the gig.


    (I had looked at a Jag before buying the C5. It was in a car yard.
    Um, they said, "you can't test drive it, coz it isn't going.")

    Incredible. An honest used car salesman!

    John
    JohnW and alhantos like this.

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    Fellow Frogger! lamoor's Avatar
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    this is an interesting question. having grown up with citroens from an early age, i believe that it may have something to do with the wiring of the individual. yes these cars are different in every way. especially the previous generation. they only speak to a particular type of person - either M or F.
    i consider the D series to be the pinnacle of industrial design when you consider what was around at the time |1945 - 55| and simply the sheer audacity of design and mechanical ingenuity. "NONE CAN DARE TO COMPARE" many other much talented motoring journalists have written volumes about this marque. the ones that have been, or are fortunate to enjoy the ownership of a citroen will understand.

    picture of my 2 brothers and myself on a ripple bonnet 2CV in sri lanka that my father owned- he was my main influence for these cars - 1965 ?? i am on the right the eldest of 3 in the family at the time.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bah. Humbug.-img_0702.jpg  

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    They are the cars that scared the mechanics - not at all like a Holden. Today's cars are not so novel, and a mechanic that won't touch one might be saying something about his competence.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    I have a mate who LOVES his friend's Merc convertible that he drives from time to time.
    The only thing...only... that seems cool to me is that it goes fast. Mostly every other facet is unappealing, including the teeth breaking ride.

    I still don't get the "Holden" thing. I have been reading old Wheels mags, seems to me that back in the late 50s/60s most of them thar Holdens had a lot of problems and the need for constant service. And not insignificant problems, like not starting. The Pugs of the day were probably more reliable, and of course, better cars for Oz. Let alone later on when D's came to the fore. Or a GS.

    "I'd like a late C5 but that can wait."

    I have driven a few. I was indifferent to the 2.0 HDI, but enjoyed the grunt of the 2.7 and 3.0 but I'm told these motors
    are common to a few manufacturers, with certain expensive potential problems. I also prefer the more precise steering of the older C5s.

    I'd possibly move from the current 2005 to a 2.2 2008, but I'm in no hurry (money notwithstanding).

    I also find the handling of the C5 surprisingly good, (the small body roll may make it seem less so, but it really is excellent).

    I can't imagine any other *status* car that you can buy for $2k - $6k that can be even in the same postcode of the C5 as a great car.

    And ... I love the auto box and the HDi motor combo, change points are excellent for city driving, which is rare in many other status cars. The low end torque is also very useful at the lights compared to the Big Engine competitors. The cruise control is brilliant.

    Sycophantic?
    I suppose, but not without owning, driving, (other cars) and trying to be open ...
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    D Special 1974
    Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    1986 2CV6
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    DS23 1973 Pallas

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    I have a mate who LOVES his friend's Merc convertible that he drives from time to time.
    The only thing...only... that seems cool to me is that it goes fast. Mostly every other facet is unappealing, including the teeth breaking ride.

    I still don't get the "Holden" thing. I have been reading old Wheels mags, seems to me that back in the late 50s/60s most of them thar Holdens had a lot of problems and the need for constant service. And not insignificant problems, like not starting. The Pugs of the day were probably more reliable, and of course, better cars for Oz. Let alone later on when D's came to the fore. Or a GS.

    "I'd like a late C5 but that can wait."

    I have driven a few. I was indifferent to the 2.0 HDI, but enjoyed the grunt of the 2.7 and 3.0 but I'm told these motors
    are common to a few manufacturers, with certain expensive potential problems. I also prefer the more precise steering of the older C5s.

    I'd possibly move from the current 2005 to a 2.2 2008, but I'm in no hurry (money notwithstanding).

    I also find the handling of the C5 surprisingly good, (the small body roll may make it seem less so, but it really is excellent).

    I can't imagine any other *status* car that you can buy for $2k - $6k that can be even in the same postcode of the C5 as a great car.

    And ... I love the auto box and the HDi motor combo, change points are excellent for city driving, which is rare in many other status cars. The low end torque is also very useful at the lights compared to the Big Engine competitors. The cruise control is brilliant.

    Sycophantic?
    I suppose, but not without owning, driving, (other cars) and trying to be open ...
    A good discussion and always tempered by our experiences and 'prejudices' , likes /dislikes.
    I've driven lots of Citoens and generally have loved them, but I could never attach myself to C5 after friends' experiences with early models. The later ones look very good and I am sure they are great cars. My last French daily driver apart from the family Megane was a manual Renault 25 which I loved, apart from its electrical foibles . it was superbly comfortable limousine which is the type of ride I like. I replaced it with a manual 2001 .5 Passat 1.8 Turbo . I had had VWs before in the 60's and admired the quality. This car has been amazing and as it still drives like new after 15 years I am not inclined to get rid of it. Its body design is better than their later models IMO. Leather seats and sunroof are good in typical German style - completely different seat to a French car, but still comfortable . The car has only had service items over the years , not one serious fault and hasn't got a rattle which beats anything else I have owned for reliability. This particular model has the 15 inch alloys and was renowned for its smooth softer ride . Performance is similar to a V6, fuel economy is 5 - 6 litres per 100 kms on the freeways.

    So I guess there are other makes that can provide that experience you describe with your C5, but we don't often know enough about them. I too am inclined to think Audi /BMW / Merc are probably overrated (do Like the look of some of the new Merc compacts). The Skoda might be more my style or maybe a Citroen if I get to try one!
    '04 Megane
    Gone but not forgotten
    '71 16 TS, '72 16 TL, '74 15TS,'82 20TS Series 2, '85 25 GTX. '49 L15,

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    I have a mate who LOVES his friend's Merc convertible that he drives from time to time.
    The only thing...only... that seems cool to me is that it goes fast. Mostly every other facet is unappealing, including the teeth breaking ride.

    I still don't get the "Holden" thing. I have been reading old Wheels mags, seems to me that back in the late 50s/60s most of them thar Holdens had a lot of problems and the need for constant service. And not insignificant problems, like not starting. The Pugs of the day were probably more reliable, and of course, better cars for Oz. Let alone later on when D's came to the fore. Or a GS.

    "I'd like a late C5 but that can wait."

    I have driven a few. I was indifferent to the 2.0 HDI, but enjoyed the grunt of the 2.7 and 3.0 but I'm told these motors
    are common to a few manufacturers, with certain expensive potential problems. I also prefer the more precise steering of the older C5s.

    I'd possibly move from the current 2005 to a 2.2 2008, but I'm in no hurry (money notwithstanding).

    I also find the handling of the C5 surprisingly good, (the small body roll may make it seem less so, but it really is excellent).

    I can't imagine any other *status* car that you can buy for $2k - $6k that can be even in the same postcode of the C5 as a great car.

    And ... I love the auto box and the HDi motor combo, change points are excellent for city driving, which is rare in many other status cars. The low end torque is also very useful at the lights compared to the Big Engine competitors. The cruise control is brilliant.

    Sycophantic?
    I suppose, but not without owning, driving, (other cars) and trying to be open ...
    I just thought I'd put my bit in about Holdens.
    In a way we just didn't know any better. As a kid in Geelong we would cycle our way up the road each year to see WHAT THE NEXT HOLDEN LOOKED LIKE. Sometimes it was only small differences on blinkers etc like with the FB going through to the EK of '62. After Dad sold the '57Chev he had new Holden work cars like the EJ and EH. We thought they were the bees knees. Mum, meanwhile had a 4CV I think 1959 Renault which went very well apart from having an automatic choke which necessitated us 7 kids push starting it on cold mornings.
    My first car was a 1962 EK Holden panelvan (surf wagon) which I must say served me very well, doing many miles including a trip to Perth when it was still gravel between Ceduna and Eucla and getting home with the tyre down to the canvass.
    Later, I had 3 or 4 FE's and FC's in sedans and wagons and found them tough. I was into old American cars and often I would be riding the clutch on takeoff, uphill in Brisbane, at lights with smoke coming off the clutch as I was bringing a big Buick or Hudson home. So yes, they might drive a bit like a Fergi tractor but as far as I can remember they served us well. It was later of course that I saw the light and realized what I was missing out on.
    John

    Pic is dragging out an old '35 or so Pontiac
    with my '62 EK Holden panel van.
    For this work I bolted an old
    tow truck gantry with big hand winch to the
    back floor - - about 1975
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bah. Humbug.-vintage-1.jpg  
    Last edited by gilberthenry; 29th January 2017 at 07:03 PM.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    John,

    John 1975!!!

    That was the year I moved up and down from my Renault 10S, 1108 cc to a G Speciale, all of 1015cc. Man did I have to slip the clutch when the lights turned green in Creek street to get up across Ann Street. But I had to do that in the 10S as well - neither had any low speed torque.

    Cheers, Ken

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