Hindsight is the clearest kind of vision
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Thread: Hindsight is the clearest kind of vision

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Hindsight is the clearest kind of vision

    I'm new to the forum and thought I would say hello.
    Lots of interesting reading here and plenty of great looking cars. Thanks for sharing!

    My first "real" car was in the early 80's, a lovely white '65 Aussie built ID19.
    I've been thinking a lot about that car lately...and how I should never have parted with it.

    Looking back now and thinking about that period I realised my affair with Citroens was all too brief.
    I learnt so much about working on cars from that ID19...about getting ripped off etc... but I got involved with this thing called...a car club...where I met some very nice people. They were very generous and shared their knowledge with me to help me out. A real education that was so useful with all my subsequent classic car adventures.
    I was young, and loved spending all my new found, hard earned money on classic cars. I moved away from Citroens after owning three D's and got into sports cars but that's another story...
    Now, I really miss that ID19...
    I wonder if it's still going. I've got a feeling it's been destroyed. I've not seen any pictures of it on the net.
    I remember selling it to a woman who had bratty young kids. I remember, while showing her the car, fending off one of her kids who was already picking the foam out of the original split vinyl in the armrest. I remember thinking "oh no, this car is doomed, it won't last long with this lot" She was excited to buy it and paid me what I wanted for it, so I let it go.
    How disingenuous of me. The poor old thing. Probably ended up under a tree in the back yard like so many. Then again, I'm sounding sexist. Maybe she really treasured it and it's still in the family being driven by one of those kids now. She just didn't seem the car enthusiast type.

    Anyway, just sitting here at 12.30 am, dreaming really. Sorry for the long winded-ness
    I'd love to get back into another DS but can't bring myself to sell my current classic which I've treasured since the early 90's, a very nice Alfa Romeo Giulia Super.
    Hard to justify two expensive classics, never mind the lack of garage space.

    Ahh well these are all first world problems aren't they? Should be grateful i'm not sitting in a bomb crater in Syria right now eh!

    I was thinking that a little Gs Wagon might feed my addiction. They're cute, quirky and go up and down like a real Citroen don't they?
    Until I can find one of those I'll have to be content looking at all your pictures!

    Hello and goodbye for now.
    Jim

    p.s
    Here's a pic of me in the 80's with my ID. My son reckons it was taken in my Don Draper period. Well, he got the skinny tie right anyway!
    The other pics show how Citroens really are chick magnets. One became my wife!
    p.p.s
    ...also, a pic of my Giulia because...well, Italy's part of France right?

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    We may have lost you to a rival marque, but at least you still drive a classic. There's hope for you yet!
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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    Both cars look great! I've got a 73 Alfa GTV as well, so mixing marques is quite acceptable!
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    '04 Megane
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  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
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    105 series ARs are just beautiful. On my bucket list...
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    there is a GS wagon on carsales that you should buy. Needs some tlc but hey it's a GS. Easy to get parts for from European suppliers on web and alot of NOS. All the fun of a D with less complications. My two bobs worth.

    the link-
    https://www.carsales.com.au/car/deal...rcx=makemodel&

    No I do not know the owner, it's more to do with car-ma!
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 11th January 2017 at 03:45 PM.
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  6. #6
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Great photos. Thanks. Personally, I reckon the Gulia Super is one of the great overlooked classic saloons.
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    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    Fellow Frogger! deesse's Avatar
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    Hi Jim,
    You have great taste in cars, and that is a fine looking Giulia.
    I have similar feelings about my old Giulia Super that I sold in the past and am still missing. I have had Alfas and Citroens for a long time now. I sold my 1750 berlina to buy my SM. So if you want to PM me we could arrange a mutual appreciation/swap drive if that is of interest to you. Owning 2 classic cars is a slippery slope, after all can you really say you have enough money to satisfy one?
    My idea is to own one really good one and use that to get you behind the wheel (or at least a ride in the passenger seat) of others.
    Look forward to hearing from you.
    cheers Tony
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  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    there is a GS wagon on carsales that you should buy. Needs some tlc but hey it's a GS. Easy to get parts for from European suppliers on web and alot of NOS. All the fun of a D with less complications. My two bobs worth.

    the link-
    https://www.carsales.com.au/car/deal...rcx=makemodel&

    No I do not know the owner, it's more to do with car-ma!


    Thanks. yes I've seen that ad...would love to find one in a bit better shape though.
    Cheers

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by deesse View Post
    Hi Jim,
    You have great taste in cars, and that is a fine looking Giulia.
    I have similar feelings about my old Giulia Super that I sold in the past and am still missing. I have had Alfas and Citroens for a long time now. I sold my 1750 berlina to buy my SM. So if you want to PM me we could arrange a mutual appreciation/swap drive if that is of interest to you. Owning 2 classic cars is a slippery slope, after all can you really say you have enough money to satisfy one?
    My idea is to own one really good one and use that to get you behind the wheel (or at least a ride in the passenger seat) of others.
    Look forward to hearing from you.
    cheers Tony

    Wow Tony!!
    What an lovely, amazing and generous offer, thank you so much! You must be really missing your 105 mate! I would love to come around and peruse your SM and chat about Alfas and Citroens.
    I'll definitely be in touch.

    Makes me think of an idea (which I'm sure is not a new one)
    Wouldn't it be amazing to be a member of a car club were everyone put in dollars, or pooled their cars, so that you could swap and enjoy each others classic cars. Very cool idea.

    talk soon
    Jim

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Great photos. Thanks. Personally, I reckon the Gulia Super is one of the great overlooked classic saloons.

    Hi John, thank you.
    Yes, I couldn't agree more. Obviously the styling is an issue of personal taste but I just think they are lovely little cars and up to fairly recently very accessible value wise.
    I'm still amazed that in 1965 they came out with a 4 door saloon with a lovely, revvy, all alloy twin cam twin weber engine, full alloy 5 speed box, alloy trans-axle and disc brakes all 'round. Incredible.
    I've just recently finally had the dollars for a long overdue repair/up-grade to the suspension and exhaust and anything else underneath that needed attending to which has transformed the car. Goes round corners like a go cart (it always did but with considerable body roll and hanging on to the steering wheel !!) and goes like a bullet!! It's so easy and fun to drive everyday I'm almost tempted to put it back on to daily reg. Gets a bit sticky inside on a hot day is the only let down.
    Sorry guys...don't get me talking about Alfa's !! haha ha
    Anyway, back to Citroens.

    Cheers

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Unless someone's hiding a GS wagon or two well away from public reference, I think it would be safe to say that you'll be lucky or have to wait a long time to find a good wagon example. I've seen or heard of no more than a dozen still existing in Australia in any way approaching the photo/ how you describe the condition of your Alfa. This doesn't mean there aren't a few exceptionally good GS wagons here, but how successful you'd be in getting their owners to part with them is another matter.

    The majority of GS wagons that appear for sale, when they ever do, are in the condition of the one advertised or worse. GS values have been low for decades, meaning unlike for other Australian Citroens of their vintage, owners have rarely spent much money in maintaining them and only a very small number have been restored. There are no doubt some people like me who have a few sub-economic repair project GS's lying around, but I also know I'm not the only person who has lately destroyed a GS that couldn't be sold for beer money.

    I have heard and read many more Citroen followers say "I'd like to have a [digging deeper it is always a road-ready, not a project] GS some day" than there are now vehicles available. It would seem that many of these people, however, are attracted by the current market value (in a market where most GS's are project cases) than by the many technical features of a GS. I base this conclusion on the fact that even when good examples come up for sale, people are reluctant to spend much on purchasing, rarely anywhere near what it would cost to repair a car to the condition. You may have to wait years for a good GS to come on the market again in Australia, and unless the vendor is desperate to sell, then another year for the vendor to accept that what most purchasers expect to pay for their pride and joy is nowhere near what they think it is worth.

    I sometimes wonder whether this is just an Australian situation, where the national psyche has steered us to bigger cars and therefore bigger Citroens have always been the most desired, or whether it's that most Citroen fanatics worldwide are just after owning one of the 'iconic', and therefore will rarely stray away from the DS, 2CV, Traction, SM or occasional H van, to the perpetual detriment of those who want to own a GS, Visa, Dyane, Ami, Axel, AX, BX, CX, XM, etc.

    To put it in Alfa terms, what you're sometimes thinking about (GS ownership) is only marginally more likely than buying a good Alfasud wagon in Australia, so it might be better to have ideas of owning the Citroen model you know as they are almost common in comparison.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    There is an honest GS wagon advertised at the moment on the Citroen Classic Owners club website.
    Cars for Sale | CitroŽn Classic Owners Club of Australia Inc.
    '04 Megane
    Gone but not forgotten
    '71 16 TS, '72 16 TL, '74 15TS,'82 20TS Series 2, '85 25 GTX. '49 L15,

  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    [QUOTE=Bruce H;1496931]Unless someone's hiding a GS wagon or two well away from public reference, I think it would be safe to say that you'll be lucky or have to wait a long time to find a good wagon example. I've seen or heard of no more than a dozen still existing in Australia in any way approaching the photo/ how you describe the condition of your Alfa. This doesn't mean there aren't a few exceptionally good GS wagons here, but how successful you'd be in getting their owners to part with them is another matter.

    The majority of GS wagons that appear for sale, when they ever do, are in the condition of the one advertised or worse. GS values have been low for decades, meaning unlike for other Australian Citroens of their vintage, owners have rarely spent much money in maintaining them and only a very small number have been restored. There are no doubt some people like me who have a few sub-economic repair project GS's lying around, but I also know I'm not the only person who has lately destroyed a GS that couldn't be sold for beer money.

    I have heard and read many more Citroen followers say "I'd like to have a [digging deeper it is always a road-ready, not a project] GS some day" than there are now vehicles available. etc...


    Thanks for that info Bruce.
    Yes I suspected as much. I guess that means the two currently for sale represent a rare opportunity!

    I must admit I don't know much about the GS and am guilty as charged about being attracted by the apparent low cost to purchase of the examples I have seen so far. I imagine an example in top condition would and should demand a lot more.

    The more I research them, the more my interest grows.
    i do like things that are less commonly liked...my little Alfa berlina for instance, rather than a coupe. Yet, now more people are Interested in the Giulia Super and their values have started to go up.
    Maybe the same thing will happen to the GS...
    I really like the look of the Break. After reading up about them, I like the fresh, quirky, yet "people's car" approach to the design and I'm more interested in a little wagon which suits my current lifestyle.
    I've spoken to Leon about his Break and will go and have a hard look at it. Another forum member has kindly offered me an opportunity to look over his as well.
    I guess I put the wanted ad on Gumtree in case there was a gem hiding out there somewhere but at that stage had no idea how rare they were.
    Thanks for letting me know.
    Cheers.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Yes, Jim, the advertised wagons are rare opportunities, and if a vehicle isn't too difficult to get a look at it you should definitely inspect. If nothing else, it might help you see what you're prepared to accept or reject in terms of condition, originality, work required, etc.

    Even visiting car club events and shows and hanging around specialist mechanics' workshops, it could take you years to get a good impression of the general condition of the GS's still existing in Australia. As I said, there is a small number of generally tightly held, remarkably good examples around, then there the others which invariably will require some sort of work, but which mightn't require a lot before you can experience GS motoring. For a small vehicle, the wagons can do a remarkable job, but will be quite a different drive from your Alfa. It would be a good idea to get to drive one or more before you decide if you want to be an owner.

    Good luck with your search.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

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