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  1. #1
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    Default D Super pulling to left

    After a couple of years in the Shed the Super is now undergoing road tests'.As I havn,t yet had time to recon the power steering I am presently using a non powered steering rack,it seems to be fine for country roads!The only issue at present is that it is pulling to the left a bit.I checked the toe after changing the rack and that's OK.Tires are good ,no conicity.Looking for ideas.
    Woody

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Have you checked the caster angles?
    Cheers Gerry

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    Thanks Gerry.Have checked the Camber angles but not the Caster,that is a bit more challenging,and what could I do about it if it is wrong.(Actually I have heard of someone bending a suspension arm with a long piece of 2in tubing.) I,m hoping for something simpler.
    Woody

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    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    I think you can adjust the upper or lower arm backwards or forwards.

    Roger

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    Pulling all the time or just under braking? If it pulls under braking is possibly a seized brake caliper on the side that it pulls away from, i.e. it will pull to the side of the brake that is working.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Sadly there is no adjustment on the Susp Arms Roger.It pulls to the Right all the time It is fine if I drive on the wrong side of the road?
    Woody

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    One protective D, just trying to protect you from those right wingers out there Brian!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian woodcock View Post
    Sadly there is no adjustment on the Susp Arms Roger.It pulls to the Right all the time It is fine if I drive on the wrong side of the road?
    Woody
    Operation ID-410-3 of the ID 19 manual. As far as I know the axles are the same in regards to the bearing set up for the upper and lower arm.
    Cheers Gerry

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    Pulling all the time or just under braking? If it pulls under braking is possibly a seized brake caliper on the side that it pulls away from, i.e. it will pull to the side of the brake that is working.
    DS's don't do that I drove home a DS23 that had completely worn through on of the front brake rotors. Even with only one front brake working, you could lock the one front wheel under braking.... and the car wouldn't pull to the side. Infact you could take your hands off the steering wheel and stand on the brake button and it would just lock one front wheel and track dead straight.

    They really are a remarkable car

    I think I'd be looking or a bent steering arm ... or a mixture of powered/non powered steering rods. I had a GS a few years back that would always pull to the side. I eventually decided it's front passenger side lower suspension arm must have been bent. I ruled everything else out!

    seeya,
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian woodcock View Post
    Thanks Gerry.Have checked the Camber angles but not the Caster,that is a bit more challenging,and what could I do about it if it is wrong.(Actually I have heard of someone bending a suspension arm with a long piece of 2in tubing.) I,m hoping for something simpler. Woody
    Lucien Bianchi was observed sorting this with a very big hammer in SA in 1967, I have on good authority...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    DS's don't do that I drove home a DS23 that had completely worn through on of the front brake rotors. Even with only one front brake working, you could lock the one front wheel under braking.... and the car wouldn't pull to the side. Infact you could take your hands off the steering wheel and stand on the brake button and it would just lock one front wheel and track dead straight.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    A worn through disk might give different behavior than a seized caliper. I had the opposite experience with my '67DS. It pulled badly to the side when I stepped on the brakes but I couldn't find any looseness in the suspension or steering linkage. Daffy diagnosed it as a seized brake caliper and rebuilt the calipers. All is well now.

    That being said, Brian, did you check the condition of the rubber bushings where the track rods attach to the trolley at the middle of the rack?
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    A worn through disk might give different behavior than a seized caliper. I had the opposite experience with my '67DS. It pulled badly to the side when I stepped on the brakes but I couldn't find any looseness in the suspension or steering linkage. Daffy diagnosed it as a seized brake caliper and rebuilt the calipers. All is well now.

    That being said, Brian, did you check the condition of the rubber bushings where the track rods attach to the trolley at the middle of the rack?
    Now that is interesting. It wasn't one of the rear brakes that was seized
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    You shim the bottom arms to alter the caster. There is an adjusting washer or ring that sits behind the front bottom bearing cup. So, it's not really something you can adjust easily when you consider the procedure for changing the bearing cups. Not a simple task as in many other cars. Note any shims if you go into the suspension arm bearings. If you've taken the arms out, changed the bearings and omitted the adjusting ring, the bottom arm will be too far back and the caster angle will be way out.

    If the car didn't do this when it was left in the shed, it's probably not the caster angle or a bent arm, but more likely something done recently or a dragging brake problem. What do you smell after a drive? Is one caliper / handbrake hotter than the other???
    Last edited by David S; 7th December 2016 at 01:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Now that is interesting. It wasn't one of the rear brakes that was seized
    No, it was definitely the front. Admittedly my story is anecdotal, however, isn't it also true that the "true" center point steering went away with the 5-main bearing engine?
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    No, it was definitely the front. Admittedly my story is anecdotal, however, isn't it also true that the "true" center point steering went away with the 5-main bearing engine?
    I can't see how the geometry changed The car in question that I drove iwth only one front brake was a 1974 (1975 model year I think) DS23ie 5spd pallas. One of the very last cars.

    seeya,
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    No, it was definitely the front. Admittedly my story is anecdotal, however, isn't it also true that the "true" center point steering went away with the 5-main bearing engine?
    Absolutely not! The design of the ball joints changed as did the hub but the pivot line remained on centre with the ball joints and the centre of the contact patch of the tyres.
    Cheers Gerry

  17. #17
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    I,m with Shane on this one,I,ve come across many D,s where the RHS Disc has been well lubricated (for well known reasons) and yet the car would not pull to the left on braking.I never drove the car before it went into the shed,I dragged it in.
    Woody

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    You didn't hook the tow chains to the suspension arms did you?
    Cheers Gerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    You didn't hook the tow chains to the suspension arms did you?
    I thought that was the correct way to do it? Please correct me if I am wrong as I have done this once and have another trip to make on the back of a flatdeck in a couple of weeks!

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincenzo View Post
    I thought that was the correct way to do it? Please correct me if I am wrong as I have done this once and have another trip to make on the back of a flatdeck in a couple of weeks!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I can't see why that would hurt the arms if the car is free rolling. They are very solid lumps of metal! It's how I move any and every DS too ... as there is nowhere else to tie too that is strong enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Absolutely not! The design of the ball joints changed as did the hub but the pivot line remained on centre with the ball joints and the centre of the contact patch of the tyres.

    Thanks for setting me straight on that. As to the original question, Brian, did you check the simple things like the centering cam?
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Try swapping the tyres around and see if it changes. Tyres will go off sitting in a shed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I can't see why that would hurt the arms if the car is free rolling. They are very solid lumps of metal! It's how I move any and every DS too ... as there is nowhere else to tie too that is strong enough
    Depends on where the force is applied. A triangulated pull on both arms with chain and hooks is OK because the chain pulls in close to the large diameter end of the arm. Pulling with only one chain and hook allows the attachment to slide out to the hub end. --------BAD
    Vincenzo likes this.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Thanks for your helpful suggestions John,however as I am temporally using a non powered rack (Which I have reconditioned) I have removed the steering cam.
    Woody

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    [QUOTE=David S;1490132]You shim the bottom arms to alter the caster. There is an adjusting washer or ring that sits behind the front bottom bearing cup. So, it's not really something you can adjust easily when you consider the procedure for changing the bearing cups. Not a simple task as in many other cars. Note any shims if you go into the suspension arm bearings. If you've taken the arms out, changed the bearings and omitted the adjusting ring, the bottom arm will be too far back and the caster angle will be way out.
    I ve just dismantled a front 1/2 axle,no sign of any shims or spacers.Having perused the manuals I believe this facility was deleted on later cars
    Woody

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