D special drive shaft drama
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Thread: D special drive shaft drama

  1. #1
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    Default D special drive shaft drama

    Yesterday was not a good day.

    Recently I did a large job on the front end, including clutch, steering rack, camshaft pulley, etc. the job included refurbishing the driveshafts. Since finishing, the car has been going really nicely.

    A clack clack sound caused me to slow right down, and then the next second there was a terrible metal tearing/exploding noise and all of a sudden the triaxe roller bearings from the drive shaft were bouncing along the road besides me.

    The LHS drive shaft had separated from the inboard brake disc plate. It was not pretty.

    The only thing I can think is that I neglected to tighten the drive shaft studs/nuts properly, and over the last few weeks they have worked themselves out. My reasoning is based on the fact that I found four studs and nuts on the under tray and two were sheared/broken. In other words they had dropped out one by one until the last two broke under the pressure.

    The damage is not ruinous but it is significant enough. One of the holes in both the triax housing flange and the brake disc flange was distorted and broken, with bits of brake disc metal also broken away.

    It means at least replacing the drive shaft assembly and the brake disc. A fairly big job with the need to remove radiator and rack etc for access, as well as the calipers etc.

    My concern is the damage may have gone further, to the differential and/or gearbox. Is this likely/possible, and how would I go about diagnosing?

    aargh.

    AM

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    Last edited by ajaxvte; 5th December 2016 at 10:00 PM.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    i guess you need to get it suspended and clear away everything problematic and start it up and see what it does. Very sorry to hear of this happening, what a pain. Bit of luck you'll have survived it. Which shaft was it? I just remembered I have a left spare but its a looong way from you. Better off buying a new one.

  3. #3
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    It is the left hand side...I might be interested, at the very least as a short term fix...

    I have been thinking of replacing both drive shafts in any case, as the outer Hooke joints have worn.
    Last edited by ajaxvte; 5th December 2016 at 10:01 PM. Reason: correction Hooke not cv joints

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    That's really unfortunate. Braking probably finished the studs off given the disc are inboard. It probably hasn't done damage to the diff/gearbox if the left disc locked up and the diff did it's job. The damage would be from the left driveshaft flailing about. If you simple remove the wheel, you an extract what remains of it through the hub. They you may only need to bolt up another tri-ax housing (assuming the old one is ruined), fit some rollers, slide the driveshjft back in, Ligarex the boot on and maybe you are OK to go. If the driveshaft has struck piping etc. then you may have a larger repair job ahead of you. It wold have to be a very late car or have had a replacement driveshaft to have a an outer CV instead of the double Hooke joint. You may get away with just removing the guard (easy) but not the rack and radiator.

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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear this - not nice...
    Very very unlikely to have done damage to the gearbox or output shaft flange. There are trucks running around with smaller components.
    When you replace the disk it might pay to check the disk runout with a dial gauge just to make sure. Buy a dial guage and mount it on the gearbox, bolt the disk on and rotate.
    Also - not an issue in this instance but worth checking with the replacement - make sure the triax housing is the 65mm one not the 50mm deep one. The 50mm ones were just not deep enough to keep the triax from falling out in some circumstances.
    Cheers,
    Mark...
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  6. #6
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    Thanks. To clarify, yes you are right it is not an outer CV joint but the Hooke joint.

    I stopped within 50m or so of the shaft coming off, and was only going about 30km/h, so it didn't flail around much and no collateral damage to piping or anything. I took the wheel off and removed the shaft before putting the wheel back on so that the car could be raised and steered etc for the flat bed truck ride home. No damage done other than the triaxe housing and the thin plate that goes over the opening (it was well and truly bent up), so far as I could tell - I managed to retrieve the rollers from the road!

    I haven't had the opportunity to properly inspect the damage to the disc - other than that at least one hole was torn open and bits of metal came off. So it is clearly stuffed. It could well be that a broken bit of stud is sitting in there as well - which may make removing the disc interesting. A closer inspection will reveal all...but it not for a couple of weeks, as I am going away...

    A

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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    I've fixed gobs of these. Gearbox is likely okay. Don't think I have ever seen a broken one after this type of event, even the bad ones at 100kph.

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    Under-torquing the triax nuts is an easy mistake to make. This is because OP D410-00 says "Tighten the screws holding the half-axle to between 70 and 90 m-N (7 to 9 m.kg) (50 to 65 ft.Ibs.)." This would lead you to believe the Triax nuts are tightened to a maximum of 65 ft. lbs., but this is incorrect because the half-axles referred to in OP D410-00 are NOT the driveshafts.

    Elsewhere, OP D372-00 says " - nuts securing housing =- aluminium tri-axe - 85 to 110 m-N (8.5 to 11 mkq) (61- 79 ft. Ibs)steel tri-axe - 105 to 135 m-N (10.5 to 13.5 mkq) (76 - 98 ft. lbs)"
    Cheers,
    John T.

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    Hi, I use and advise these washers for drive shafts. The BEST!!!

    Nord-Lock wedge-locking washers | Secure your critical bolted joints with the original lock washer from the bolting experts


    cheers,

    Harry Martens

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    I used blue screw lock for most of bolts and nuts on the car... I know many said no good but I don`t think there is any harm to the car. But I did not use screw lock on the clutch pressure plate because it had torque requirement and spring washer under each nuts!
    But also I lost one screw holding wire connected to choke control on carburetor! Who knows how many bolts and screw came off from my car.... It will look like a scene from comedy TV show one day! But I will go home and check my drive shaft bolts for tightness tonight!
    That Nord Lock seems be a good idea but being cautious, I will still use screw lock as well with that washer.
    1961 Citroen ID19(2010~), Holden Frontera(R.I.P 2002-2014), Honda Accord EURO(2006~)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsvitesse1 View Post
    Hi, I use and advise these washers for drive shafts. The BEST!!!

    Nord-Lock wedge-locking washers | Secure your critical bolted joints with the original lock washer from the bolting experts


    cheers,

    Harry Martens
    Wow! Great system. Worth watching their demonstration video
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  12. #12
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    So today I finally got round to tackling the job of replacing the brake discs and driveshafts, having received replacement parts from the U.K.

    The damage on the LHS was considerable. As previously discussed here, the driveshaft triax end cover plate and housing, as well as the brake disc flange, were torn. Not only that, I soon realized today that the brake caliper was also damaged, as it was crooked and no longer in alignment wit the disc. As it turns out, the bolts were bent, and the housing has a crack where it split against the bolt.

    So now I need to replace the brake caliper as well as the drive shaft and brake disc. Aargh.

    The extent of the damage has me wondering whether the mechanical handbrake caliper and differential itself are also damaged, although they appear ok.

    It is quite a big job. Does anybody have any advice on access to the bolts on the RHS mechanical brake caliper? (I have decided to do both sides whilst I am at it). It is an extremely tight space, and I really don't want to have to remove the clutch cable, steering rack and column if I don't have to...

    AM

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    I trust you are working on a RHD car? I would get the parking brake caliper bolts from the bottom as that is the easiest way to get them on a LHD car.
    As you noted excessive damage to many items, be diligent. I have seen bent parking brake caliper arms after such an event. I'm sure the axle shaft is bent without even seeing it after your description given as to the damage. The last one I repaired broke pretty much everything down there except the gearbox and even damaged the chassis where the axle pokes through.
    Be sure to set and seat the studs tight onto the gearbox end of the driveshaft flange before bolting the whole mess up. All six need to be tightly planted in the flange. Thread locker is not an issue until future service removal and in my experience does not cause problems. Also be sure all mating surfaces of disc and flange are clean as well as where the 6 nuts will seat. Try and locate all pieces of shrapnel as you mentioned a fractured brake disc. Shrapnel damage to low and even high pressure lines is a reality.
    Edit: after fixing words changed by autocorrect. If you are fitting new brake discs, have them skimmed first. They are NEVER true out of the box. We turn them on a brake lathe used for trucks and buses as the Arbor is large enough to easily and correctly load up the disc in the lathe.

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    Differential is going to be a crap shoot. No real way to tell until you have put it all back together.

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    If the axle may have been bent, then with the caliper off, it would be sensible to trial fit a new disc and check for runout, then turn it around and mount the disc at another point in case it has some runout of it's own. Somewhere I have a pair of loose output / axle assemblies (not sure if sided?) and possibly an OK handbrake caliper (pivots wear out though). Draining the oil and feeling around for broken bits of teeth with a magnetic pickup might give some assurance(or otherwise) re the diff?

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    You're scaring the bejesus out of me...!

    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    Differential is going to be a crap shoot. No real way to tell until you have put it all back together.

    Do the dance. Do the Daffyduck dance using the Aussiefrogs app. Be real happy if you can.

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    About 20 years ago here I heard a story about a D losing a driveshaft like this when going round a roundabout, with various bits exiting left! Since then I've always separated the 6 studs from the nuts after removing them if they come out together as they often do, because it removes any temptation to put them back in like that. Then I use a solid loctite stick on the threads to glue the stud in place and put the nuts on later.

    As for access, changing discs on an SM in situ is doable but its blinking tight on a D if memory serves me right? Dare I say lifting or pulling the engine out to do it might be easier and less hassle.

    Cheers

    Marc
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