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Thread: DS21 in Victoria

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    Default DS21 in Victoria

    someone was looking for a D I noticed, this looks like it could be very interesting, owned by a Seeker once!
    They have advertised it as a manual but it not!

    A 21 hydraulique electronic injection at good price, just tear the roof off and put a proper one on, would love to see how much rust is in it, the panels don't give anything away on that front, looks pretty straight!
    It could be a dog but who cares, its a 21 efi semi auto, yum.

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    http://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/S...0&wt.z_driver=
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 5th December 2016 at 09:50 AM.

  2. #2
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    I did check out this car.

    The car needs a full restoration. It deserves to be saved but the seller has underestimated the amount of work that is needed. If someone was a restorer of Deesees, then it can be saved.

    It has been sitting outside, under a tree for at least 5 years, and due to the sunroof, there are significant water puddles in the rear passenger foot wells. The front driver's side door would need significant repairs, the boot does not open.

    Once upon a time, it would have been something to behold. Actually, it still is but it is really sad to see a D neglected. I asked the seller to advertise here on AF in the hope that the car finds a wonderful home.

    Regards Syd


    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    someone was looking for a D I noticed, this looks like it could be very interesting, owned by a Seeker once!
    They have advertised it as a manual but it not!

    A 21 hydraulique electronic injection at good price, just tear the roof off and put a proper one on, would love to see how much rust is in it, the panels don't give anything away on that front, looks pretty straight!

    http://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/S...0&wt.z_driver=
    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

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    i guess they are very flippable in Europe but sadly not here. A restored one in Europe would fetch 40-50k plus?
    I can't believe what E types are going for now, not so long ago they were around 80k but now they're 150-230k, crazy. Ds should be worth alot more here than they are but anyway. Good for some, bad for others.

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    As someone trying to buy their first DS, I am worried that I will not be able to in a few years time because the really good ones are getting quite dear.

    Prices for 1984 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 have skyrocketed in 5 years. Likewise the Porsche 911 993 Turbo.

    For under $30,000 I have seen a wide array of Deesees pending condition, specification and rust. Some were good, some need a lot more work than it initally looks. A little bit of a minefield and requires a leap of faith ;-)
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    I imagine that one would need plenty of tlc but the payoff is a pretty speccy D. Like the ducks nuts! I'd love to get amongst it on that car!

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    Buy it. Store it properly. Gradually build up a correct parts inventory. Do the work on the frame and panels etc. Ten years later...wah la!
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    I hope someone can save the vehicle - it is an hydraulique after all.

    Sadly, previous ownership by a personality does not pay extensive restoration bills.
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    it might have an autograph in it which could pay for a door spring!
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsowner84 View Post
    As someone trying to buy their first DS, I am worried that I will not be able to in a few years time because the really good ones are getting quite dear.

    Prices for 1984 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 have skyrocketed in 5 years. Likewise the Porsche 911 993 Turbo.

    For under $30,000 I have seen a wide array of Deesees pending condition, specification and rust. Some were good, some need a lot more work than it initally looks. A little bit of a minefield and requires a leap of faith ;-)

    Lovely looking 74 DS23 Pallas popped up in my inbox today for 21,500 in NSW (gold one) and under offer already. Looks a million bucks compared to this example, as soon as I saw the sky through the side of the "sunroof" on this one you knew what to expect. Good buys are still around, in fact after a lull there have been maybe 8-10 DS's up for sale inn the last month. But you have to get onto the good ones quickly and look interstate as well as Melb. The green one in the WA museum looked the pick of the current bunch and all the really expensive work done (paint, upholstery). If only some of these had half as many headlights! Yes i am a sad case.

    Cheers leconte
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    i know i will regret this but..... here is what i know.

    The DS21 EFI BVH was owned originally by Judith Durham from the Seekers and her late husband Ron. They bought it in England, toured Europe and imported it to Melbourne. I have spoken to Judith about the car and she has fond memories of it. And many photos. It has the webasto sunroof they specified and the original AM / FM cassette player that was top of the line audio in the 70s.

    But it is in a very sad state now. I spent an hour assessing it yesterday and it is possible to resurrect but you will be either devoting yourself to the task for a year or more.... or throwing big bucks at it instead.

    It is all there... but the interior is totally rotten, every rubber is perished, every chrome item pitted, every seal dried out.... the exhaust has rusted through, the door bottoms are rotten, the floor is sodden, the roof seal perished. The back of the envelope estimate is allow $15k- $20k minimum for rust and paint. $10k trim, $5 k under the bonnet for fuel injection and hydraulic overhaul alone, boots on steering rack split, radiator holed, plus chrome, tyres, rubbers for windows and doors, electrics, brakes and so on. Drive shaft boots? chassis cracked? who knows until you can get it out of the yard and onto a hoist. The sellers agent is adamant that he will not negotiate on price. So buy it for $10k..... and spend how much on getting it right? Total? north of $50k...... maybe expect $60k. And there are better cars around for less. But not with that celebrity history. How much is that worth to you?

    anyone ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leconte View Post
    Lovely looking 74 DS23 Pallas popped up in my inbox today for 21,500 in NSW (gold one) and under offer already. Looks a million bucks compared to this example, as soon as I saw the sky through the side of the "sunroof" on this one you knew what to expect. Good buys are still around, in fact after a lull there have been maybe 8-10 DS's up for sale inn the last month. But you have to get onto the good ones quickly and look interstate as well as Melb. The green one in the WA museum looked the pick of the current bunch and all the really expensive work done (paint, upholstery). If only some of these had half as many headlights! Yes i am a sad case.

    Cheers leconte
    Hi Leconte,

    I definitely tried to get the Gold DS23. Offered immediate deposit. Seller got a higher than advertised price whilst I was on a work call and within an hour or so, the car is sold. Prefer this to the green DS21 but it alas 😔 it wasn't meant to be.
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    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

    Previously owned Frenchies -
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    i know i will regret this but..... here is what i know.

    The DS21 EFI BVH was owned originally by Judith Durham from the Seekers and her late husband Ron. They bought it in England, toured Europe and imported it to Melbourne. I have spoken to Judith about the car and she has fond memories of it. And many photos. It has the webasto sunroof they specified and the original AM / FM cassette player that was top of the line audio in the 70s.

    But it is in a very sad state now. I spent an hour assessing it yesterday and it is possible to resurrect but you will be either devoting yourself to the task for a year or more.... or throwing big bucks at it instead.

    It is all there... but the interior is totally rotten, every rubber is perished, every chrome item pitted, every seal dried out.... the exhaust has rusted through, the door bottoms are rotten, the floor is sodden, the roof seal perished. The back of the envelope estimate is allow $15k- $20k minimum for rust and paint. $10k trim, $5 k under the bonnet for fuel injection and hydraulic overhaul alone, boots on steering rack split, radiator holed, plus chrome, tyres, rubbers for windows and doors, electrics, brakes and so on. Drive shaft boots? chassis cracked? who knows until you can get it out of the yard and onto a hoist. The sellers agent is adamant that he will not negotiate on price. So buy it for $10k..... and spend how much on getting it right? Total? north of $50k...... maybe expect $60k. And there are better cars around for less. But not with that celebrity history. How much is that worth to you?

    anyone ?
    Hi Jon,

    I agree with you. Spent a long time last Monday checking it out. It explains why there was no Australian ADR plate. But the agent seemed more willing for an offer. I reckon if someone had cash with them around $5K, the seller would be tempted. It will be a pain to get it out as there are other wrecks blocking the car.

    Cheers Syd
    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

    Previously owned Frenchies -
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    1997 Peugeot 306 XSi
    1995 Citroen XM Series II V6 (Vert Vega)

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    re the green one in WA. Did anyone notice that the chevrons on the boot lid are on upside down? it really peeves me that so-called professional restorers can't get a simple detail like that correct!! One wonders then about what else may have been done incorrectly by so-called professionals who see a car like a DS as 'just another car'.

    Robin
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    i know i will regret this but..... here is what i know.

    The DS21 EFI BVH was owned originally by Judith Durham from the Seekers and her late husband Ron. They bought it in England, toured Europe and imported it to Melbourne. I have spoken to Judith about the car and she has fond memories of it. And many photos. It has the webasto sunroof they specified and the original AM / FM cassette player that was top of the line audio in the 70s.

    But it is in a very sad state now. I spent an hour assessing it yesterday and it is possible to resurrect but you will be either devoting yourself to the task for a year or more.... or throwing big bucks at it instead.

    It is all there... but the interior is totally rotten, every rubber is perished, every chrome item pitted, every seal dried out.... the exhaust has rusted through, the door bottoms are rotten, the floor is sodden, the roof seal perished. The back of the envelope estimate is allow $15k- $20k minimum for rust and paint. $10k trim, $5 k under the bonnet for fuel injection and hydraulic overhaul alone, boots on steering rack split, radiator holed, plus chrome, tyres, rubbers for windows and doors, electrics, brakes and so on. Drive shaft boots? chassis cracked? who knows until you can get it out of the yard and onto a hoist. The sellers agent is adamant that he will not negotiate on price. So buy it for $10k..... and spend how much on getting it right? Total? north of $50k...... maybe expect $60k. And there are better cars around for less. But not with that celebrity history. How much is that worth to you?

    anyone ?
    Just a word on the car's history. I think it was Steeley near Maleny that told me years ago that Judith was in quite a bad accident in, I think , a Falcon. She supposedly said that if it would have been the DS which she also owned at the time, she wouldn't have been so badly off. To me, the history is important but then I've always been a bit of a dreamer.

    John.
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    Hi Robin,

    Agree re DS21. The Green had a shiny paint job but it was not the original colour and had a few details that were not quite right.
    Hence the DS23 looks particularly good. Looks original (from the photos).
    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

    Previously owned Frenchies -
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    1997 Peugeot 306 XSi
    1995 Citroen XM Series II V6 (Vert Vega)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    i know i will regret this but..... here is what i know.

    The DS21 EFI BVH was owned originally by Judith Durham from the Seekers and her late husband Ron. They bought it in England, toured Europe and imported it to Melbourne. I have spoken to Judith about the car and she has fond memories of it. And many photos. It has the webasto sunroof they specified and the original AM / FM cassette player that was top of the line audio in the 70s.

    But it is in a very sad state now. I spent an hour assessing it yesterday and it is possible to resurrect but you will be either devoting yourself to the task for a year or more.... or throwing big bucks at it instead.

    It is all there... but the interior is totally rotten, every rubber is perished, every chrome item pitted, every seal dried out.... the exhaust has rusted through, the door bottoms are rotten, the floor is sodden, the roof seal perished. The back of the envelope estimate is allow $15k- $20k minimum for rust and paint. $10k trim, $5 k under the bonnet for fuel injection and hydraulic overhaul alone, boots on steering rack split, radiator holed, plus chrome, tyres, rubbers for windows and doors, electrics, brakes and so on. Drive shaft boots? chassis cracked? who knows until you can get it out of the yard and onto a hoist. The sellers agent is adamant that he will not negotiate on price. So buy it for $10k..... and spend how much on getting it right? Total? north of $50k...... maybe expect $60k. And there are better cars around for less. But not with that celebrity history. How much is that worth to you?

    anyone ?
    Your talking cosmetics a lot. What is the cars structure like If that is good .... Your talking paint and interior, and the fun of tidying up the driveline. Interior and paint costs much the same no matter how "pretty" or "ugly" the car is to begin with....... ( well so long as the panels are sound).

    If it's structurally sound and rust free, I reckon it would be a brilliant project! I'd throw some seat covers on it ... fix the roof and start driving You don't HAVE to restore a car to enjoy it ( it's always an option for the future though).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    The EFI aspect was a turn off. When I owned one (DS 21 IE BVH) I could never park it on an angle with under half a tank in it as it wouldn't start!

    GS Owner, you should phone Peter Huth in Gayndah if you're itching for a good DS - he may very well have something for you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by donat View Post
    The EFI aspect was a turn off. When I owned one (DS 21 IE BVH) I could never park it on an angle with under half a tank in it as it wouldn't start!
    The fuel injection is what sells it for me!! Yours just needed the pickup inserted further into the tank by the sounds of it I reckon they'd be perfect to convert to something like megasquirt. You could electronically setup the creep etc...
    donat likes this.
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  19. #19
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Okay Shane, you do have a point.


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    Hi Donat,

    Thanks for the suggestion. Do you have Peter's contact details? If so, please feel free to PM me.

    Regards,

    Syd

    Quote Originally Posted by donat View Post
    The EFI aspect was a turn off. When I owned one (DS 21 IE BVH) I could never park it on an angle with under half a tank in it as it wouldn't start!

    GS Owner, you should phone Peter Huth in Gayndah if you're itching for a good DS - he may very well have something for you.


    Sent from my iPhone using aussiefrogs
    1974 Citroen D Special (Blanc Meije)
    1989 Citroen 2CV 6 Dolly (Plum & Custard)

    Previously owned Frenchies -
    1976 Citroen GS 1220
    1997 Peugeot 306 XSi
    1995 Citroen XM Series II V6 (Vert Vega)

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    Shane..... have you seen it? it is a LOT more gone than a set of seat covers will fix. I have resurrected a dozen dead DS over twenty years...... i went to see it with exactly that in mind. i have known about this car and been looking for it for decades. the hull is probably ok but until you can get underneath you cannot be sure even of that. the running gear is all stuffed. the refi will need a total go through. the interior is NOT the issue.... and i was not assessing it from a cosmetic point of view. but if you think it is such a great prospect, go right ahead. that is why i passed on all that i know in the hope that someone will make the effort and take it on. i hope to see it in all its glory one day cruise into a club show.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    Shane..... have you seen it? it is a LOT more gone than a set of seat covers will fix. I have resurrected a dozen dead DS over twenty years...... i went to see it with exactly that in mind. i have known about this car and been looking for it for decades. the hull is probably ok but until you can get underneath you cannot be sure even of that. the running gear is all stuffed. the refi will need a total go through. the interior is NOT the issue.... and i was not assessing it from a cosmetic point of view. but if you think it is such a great prospect, go right ahead. that is why i passed on all that i know in the hope that someone will make the effort and take it on. i hope to see it in all its glory one day cruise into a club show.....
    Sorry, I didn't mean to sound insulting.... My main concern is usually how structurally sound they are. Fixing the mechanicals and getting it driving is the fun bit Pallas trim is REALLY expensive to buy and redo always ... that's why I'd just throw some seat covers in it and get it running and driving (is the interior that bad you couldn't use it at all ?) ...

    The thing has to be sound though for it to be worth the effort!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    the seats crumble when you touch them. they are ruined and unsafe. the leather comes off in sheets and the foam is brittle and collapsing. the carpets are sodden and stink. the roof is leaking and seized. the headlining and rear quarters are gone. the steering rack boots are torn. the under bonnet hoses have all perished. the radiator looks shot. the tyres, exhaust and brakes are all stuffed. the mechanic says he had it running a few years ago and it pumped up then.... but even if you leave the body and have a donor set of seats you are looking at $10k to get it started. ..... rack / tyres / exhaust / brakes / hydraulic pump spheres and boots / and that is praying there is nothing wrong with the electrics, the motor or the clutch or the gearbox... and that the efi will fire up when you put a battery onto it. big ask.... so many unknowns and they all have big $$ attached. such a pity. this was one of the most stunning examples i have ever seen and i was desperate to find it...... and now that it has surfaced it is pretty much ruined, total strip down and attendant costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    Shane..... have you seen it? it is a LOT more gone than a set of seat covers will fix. I have resurrected a dozen dead DS over twenty years...... i went to see it with exactly that in mind. i have known about this car and been looking for it for decades. the hull is probably ok but until you can get underneath you cannot be sure even of that. the running gear is all stuffed. the refi will need a total go through. the interior is NOT the issue.... and i was not assessing it from a cosmetic point of view. but if you think it is such a great prospect, go right ahead. that is why i passed on all that i know in the hope that someone will make the effort and take it on. i hope to see it in all its glory one day cruise into a club show.....
    Thanks jonf, for someone that has actually seen the car that's a pretty good appraisal - from your description the next step would need the car on a hoist. . .

    A few Seekers song titles seem appropriate. . .

    I'll Never Find Another You,
    A World Of Our Own,
    Morningtown Ride,
    The Carnival Is Over,
    Some Day, One Day,
    Island Of Dreams,
    Turn Turn Turn,
    California Dreamin',
    We Shall Not Be Moved,
    Five Hundred Miles,
    All I Can Remember,
    I Wish You Could Be Here,
    Keep a Dream in Your Pocket,
    Chase a Rainbow,



    Cheers
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    wish i had thought of that....

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