Xantia sphere thread needs cleaning up
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Thread: Xantia sphere thread needs cleaning up

  1. #1
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    Default Xantia sphere thread needs cleaning up

    I was changing the spheres on my Xantia yesterday, including fitting two new rear spheres, which I purchased about 12 months ago. It appears that the thread on one of the new spheres is a bit dodgy, as I could only get about two turns in either left or right rear wheel position before the thread 'bound up'.

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    Does anyone have any suggestions as to how best to 'clean up' the thread so that the sphere spins on freely?

    Thanks, in anticipation. Chris

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    Inspect the thread for defects and run a fine pointer or even your fingernail around to find any damaged areas. Or place the threaded portion of another sphere with a known good thread against the thread and roll it around until you find a problem. You can buy thread repair bars which are like a thin slice of a die nut. However, a little filing with a very fine file or thin hacksaw blade should fix it. Wash any filings away with a suitable spray cleaner before trying to fit it. You could try screwing it onto the regulator as it is the same thread but in steel rather than aluminium, so less likely to do any damage.

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    Hi Chris,
    The thing I use is called a thread file, It is a square bare about18mm square and it has 8 different thread pitches on it,I,ve found it a real life saver.
    Woody
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    Hi
    A couple of good ideas already. Here is my take on a thread repair, after years as a maintainance fitter. Not specific to a Citroen sphere as its years since I have seen one now.
    Look carefully at the thread and it will only be the top that is damaged in one place or two, usually where it has been hit or bumped against something. Then get a small triangular file to dress it. These are readily found in hardware shops. The other better types mentioned may be hard to get easily. Just file the damaged area with the file in the thread groove until it has removed the noticeable damage. Do not be afraid to take a little extra off locally as the thread has plenty of strength.

    Clean it of chips carefully and try it in the fitting. Do a bit more if necessary after inspecting it for another bruise.
    Cheers and good luck Jaahn

    PS I have a selection of sharp files of all shapes and sizes that I use regularly for "dressing" parts if required. A couple of minutes in the vice and a file will help lots of things. Easier than power tools too
    Last edited by jaahn; 4th December 2016 at 11:45 AM.

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    Sorry, I'd meant a 'thread file' as Woody states. They come as a selection of different thread forms and pitches on different faces. A set of fine model files can be also very useful and should include a triangular file. Most hardware stores and auto parts shops usually carry them. I recently picked up a set of rifler files, which are fine pointed files curved in a selection of radii. I've not had need to use them yet, but well worth adding to the arsenal for the few dollars the set cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citquery View Post
    I was changing the spheres on my Xantia yesterday, including fitting two new rear spheres, which I purchased about 12 months ago. It appears that the thread on one of the new spheres is a bit dodgy, as I could only get about two turns in either left or right rear wheel position before the thread 'bound up'.

    Does anyone have any suggestions as to how best to 'clean up' the thread so that the sphere spins on freely?

    Thanks, in anticipation. Chris

    Chris,

    All Cit spheres used the same thread size - 36mm x 1.5mm pitch. Just call some local auto shops and see if any have a 36x1.5 die that you can use to 'chase' those threads.

    Steve

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    Handy to have long-term, but when you are looking at taps and die nuts that size, it will most likely be cheaper to buy another sphere!
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Handy to have long-term, but when you are looking at taps and die nuts that size, it will most likely be cheaper to buy another sphere!
    That is why I suggested just calling around to some local shops to see if can take his sphere in and borrow one . A lot better way to clean up those threads than trying to use a file. OTOH a thread file of the correct pitch is the only other way to go if a tap is not obtainable.

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    Hi Citroenfan
    With all due respects to you, that thread size is about as likely as rocking horse sh*t, in any engineering shop I have EVER seen. As well getting a die that would run up to the shoulder and clean the thread is also unlikely. And i have done a few thread repairs.

    If you learnt to use a file it would serve you very well for these sort of small repairs. You might think otherwise but I know it.

    I have worked in two third world countries where the locals would rebuild vehicles with no special tools and usually out in the dirt yard. Strip and clean an automatic valve body and the like. You need a stint there to see what can be done with careful hand work. No well equipped engineering shops either.
    Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 4th December 2016 at 06:57 PM.

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    Hi Chris
    Just in case people think I am being a bit up myself, here is the thread file tool suggested by the others. Available at Blackwoods engineering suppliers and other places too. Expensive though at $103.
    But it may be found on Ebay or elsewhere cheaper brand perhaps if you chase it up.

    It has 8 sides with the different thread pitches on each one. You select the one that fits your thread each time. Then file it as necessary to remove the bruise or roughness. Can also be used to clean up a stripped thread to some extent etc. I have never owned one but used them occasionally at some places I worked.
    Good luck jaahn

    FILE, THREAD RESTORING, METRIC INT/EXTBlackwoods engineering supplies, Part Number; 00694212

    cost about $103 over the counter.
    Description; Features

    • Each restorer provides eight pitch sizes of thread form
    • Suitable for use as a thread gauge
    • Ideal for repairing damaged threads where a conventional die cannot be used
    • Restores damaged left or right hand internal or external threads
    • Type Metric
    • Thread Pitch 0.8, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2, 2.5, 3mm

    Brand ABW

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    Hello, and here's a die in Oz. When I'm making clocks, I use the die back to front to get as close to the shoulder as possible

    M36 x 1.5, Parallel Hex Die Nut, P&N / SKC | eBay

    But 1: you'll never need it again and 2: you'll never find it again

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    Well i'll be !!!!
    The Citroen Car Club should buy it. With luck like finding that who needs more with a Citroen !
    Not even listed in my book as a special.
    Jaahn
    Here is another one cheaper but not in Aus. Could be used by hand to clean up a thread without a stock.
    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/36mm-x-1-5mm-...item1c52fcadbb

    I guess that size must be a special thread used in Europe sometimes. I learn something new every day
    I have had special taps made for big odd threads in the past. Very expensive ! But now I think I could find them on the net cheaper. But I have given that all up now for the easy life at home

    I do know about using the die back the front but it may not be very close on a big die though. That die is not for clock work unless you work on clock towers
    Last edited by jaahn; 4th December 2016 at 11:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi Citroenfan
    With all due respects to you, that thread size is about as likely as rocking horse sh*t, in any engineering shop I have EVER seen. As well getting a die that would run up to the shoulder and clean the thread is also unlikely. And i have done a few thread repairs.

    If you learnt to use a file it would serve you very well for these sort of small repairs. You might think otherwise but I know it.

    I have worked in two third world countries where the locals would rebuild vehicles with no special tools and usually out in the dirt yard. Strip and clean an automatic valve body and the like. You need a stint there to see what can be done with careful hand work. No well equipped engineering shops either.
    Jaahn

    Was not thinking of a 'machine shop' . OTOH a car repair (esp. foreign) facilitymight very well have one. It is well worth the try of phoning around a bit...........

    Steve

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    Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I think a fine file and some patience might do the trick. I also like the suggestion to check my work on the regulator (steel - v. alloy rear sphere mount). Is the Xantia front sphere mount steel or alloy? Even more convenient, if it's steel.
    I had a chuckle about not being able to find rarely used tools: guilty, as charged! Steve's sphere pressure tester isn't such a tool; occasionally used, but never lost. Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citquery View Post
    Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I think a fine file and some patience might do the trick. I also like the suggestion to check my work on the regulator (steel - v. alloy rear sphere mount). Is the Xantia front sphere mount steel or alloy? Even more convenient, if it's steel.
    I had a chuckle about not being able to find rarely used tools: guilty, as charged! Steve's sphere pressure tester isn't such a tool; occasionally used, but never lost. Chris
    Chris,

    AFAIK all of the suspension cylinders on all of the hydraulic Cits are alloy. The regulator is steel do to the much higher pressures seen.

    Steve

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    Sounds like it is all sorted. I spoke to my Indian mechanic on some cheap spring repairs. The first one is only for coil springs, but he did come up with a pseudo "hydraulic" spring to suit Citroens....

    Xantia sphere thread needs cleaning up-indian-spring-repair.jpgXantia sphere thread needs cleaning up-indian-semi-hydraulic-spring.jpg

    John
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    Steve, I had a closer look at the Xantia front suspension cylinder today and I noted some rust in a couple of tappings, so I suspect it’s made of a ferrous metal. I think it may be similar to the unit on the SM. On the Series 1 – which mine is – the upper section has the propensity to part company with the lower section with devastating effect.

    I am hopeful the dodgy sphere thread is all but sorted. This afternoon I purchased two tools from Supercheap Auto: a metric thread file (PLU282093 - $25.65) and a needle file set (PLU129005 - $10.25). I suspect that neither would stand more than occasional use, but hopefully they'll 'do the trick' on this occasion. If not, perhaps I could try some Indian innovation! Chris
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citquery View Post
    Steve, I had a closer look at the Xantia front suspension cylinder today and I noted some rust in a couple of tappings, so I suspect it’s made of a ferrous metal. I think it may be similar to the unit on the SM. On the Series 1 – which mine is – the upper section has the propensity to part company with the lower section with devastating effect.

    I am hopeful the dodgy sphere thread is all but sorted. This afternoon I purchased two tools from Supercheap Auto: a metric thread file (PLU282093 - $25.65) and a needle file set (PLU129005 - $10.25). I suspect that neither would stand more than occasional use, but hopefully they'll 'do the trick' on this occasion. If not, perhaps I could try some Indian innovation! Chris

    I think you meant 'XM' - not 'SM' as I can assure you 'SM' fronts are Al alloy . Problem here in the hinterlands (Cit wise at least) is the last year of factory imports was 1972. I have to think that when the the suspension systems changed to the McPherson strut type arraignment they went to a steel alloy connection head at some point. I know, after taken a closer look at my series 1 XM (one of 50 odd imported to the US in the early 90's), has that arrangement. But given the design I am not sure how one would damage those threads, other than by cross-treading (or at least trying to) them.

    Spheres, OTOH, don't need much of a drop onto a hard surface to screw things up. Don't ask me how I know this .

    Steve

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    Thanks for the correction, Steve: I did mean XM. Chris

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