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  1. #1
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Default Traction Wiring

    Hi Guys,

    I was just looking under the bonnet of the Traction .... It needs a wiring harness.... Does anyone have any pictures of what the original harness looked like? And where/how it was run through the car.

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    I'll just make my own up if possible. I wonder if it uses that lovely looking old "sewn" together harnesses.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Hi Shane, I am up to my eyeballs in wiring dilemmas for the 11BL at the moment. I looked on Scotts Auto rubber site and they say they can do a RHD loom for $547 WIRING LOOMS
    This is way too much to pay so I am going to make my own. I found a site on EBay that sell the wire in 10metre 30 metre and 100 metre rolls in sizes from 3mm to 6mm . I am getting 3,4,5 and 6mm sizes and am going to recycle the original fitting terminals. I also bought heaps of coloured heat shrink min multiple sizes to do the colour coding. The only colour I could not get was pink. Of course it was one of the colours originally used. I think that I have nearly two looms worth of terminals so perhaps we could make up two harnesses instead of just one?
    Cheers Gerry

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Gerry,

    This car doesn't have a harness at all. I "sort of" recall us running some wiring and a fuse box ( I wonder where that is ... maybe under the dash) ... way back then so it would drive up to our wedding. It's safe and usable for now if I fit a bunch of grommets around the car and cable tie all the wires down. It is way ugly though... and the rest of the car is so nice, it really lets it down.

    I remember years ago seeing a traction down in Melbourne with a machine stitched wiring harness that looked absolutely spectacular. I think one of the club members had the harness making sewing/stitching machine.

    Everything seems to be out there these days. Hotrodelectric always has the "Good Stuff" with the ability to find all the odd connectors. UK seems to be the place to search for auto-electric stuff (as there salted roads destroy any copper).

    Braided Cable

    You can even buy the braided cables................ But what did the traction originally use ? I need to find some underbonnet piccies of an original car and see where the wiring was routed, and how the harnesses were built

    I can't remember if this car was 12volt or 6volt.... So I dont' know if the fuel guage can be wired in without modification. It's certainly 12volt now either way.

    I'm sure we can find some new terminals inexpensively.... I'm just not sure what to buy Certainly I will be hiding a few box somewhere. Modern wedge type fuse boxes are very cheap and good insurance against the car becoming a toasty fire.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 15th August 2016 at 11:53 AM.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! tractionfan's Avatar
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    Hi Shane. I used vintage wiring looms. I think there in Victoria. They did looms for my Big 6, light 15 and my Normale. They came with instructions to fit which were quite good.

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tractionfan View Post
    Hi Shane. I used vintage wiring looms. I think there in Victoria. They did looms for my Big 6, light 15 and my Normale. They came with instructions to fit which were quite good.
    Those guys seems to know the differences .... Look at the different traction models listed:

    1924 MODEL 5CV [10.5 HP] CT244 250 275
    1937-39 LIGHT 12 & 15 RHD UK BUILT CT379 512 563
    1951 MODEL 11BL FRENCH BUILT RHD CT462 545 600
    1951-52 MODEL 11BL FRENCH BUILT LHD CT512/1 645 710
    1951-52 LT & BIG 15 SLOUGH SMALL BOOT,STOP SW REA CT522/1 498 547
    1952-53 LT & BIG 15 SLOUGH BIG BOOT STOP SW REAR CT522/2 529 582
    1953-54 MODEL 2CV CT534 295 325
    CITROEN (continued) CT
    Ex
    GST
    Inc
    GST
    1954-55 LIGHT 15 BIG BOOT CT545 560 616
    1954-5 BIG 6 CT522/3 632 695
    1955 MODEL 11C COMMERCIALE LHD CT555 560 616
    So this car would be the French Built RHD 11BL I imagine. So $600 for the harness (wow the LHD version of the same harness is $710).

    This takes all the fun out of it though And doesn't allow me to fit a fuse box (which I think is important).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    How original do you want to be?
    The Paris cars had their looms wrapped in Black Bias Binding Tape. This can be purchased at Spotlight ( you know it is sort of like a Bunnings for the girls )
    English cars had the Lucas loom binding in a black weave with yellow and red traces in the weave. It looks great but it is impossible to unwrap to make any modifications. Certain sections of the Paris loom were also sheathed with rubber tube over the top of the binding tape. The charging harness the rear boot section of the tail light harness and the two headlight harnesses were like this!
    Did you look at the link I sent you? It is cheaper. It is also for the complete car including the rear harness for the dome light fuel sender and tail lighting! I assume you only wish to do the Forward loom, Charging loom and Headlight looms????
    I sat in the garage unwrapping the main loom this morning! There is a lot of tape to remove!
    Cheers Gerry

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Thanks Gerry,

    This car is french built ... So I'm more than happy to use the binding tape. I would never have thought of spotlight (though I must admit I have purchased lots of "car stuff" from there). You can't ask for what you want in "car terms", you need to try thinking curtain/dress making terms

    I'd need everything I'm pretty sure. I think the interior light has been ran (better be, I'm not removing the roof lining!). If it's not, I'll put a torch in the glovebox ... I guess the main thing I need to know is ... Where did the wiring looms originally run . I think it's 5pin trailer wiring running down to the tail lights..... Now that I think about it, that is probably better than a proper wiring loom, especially if it's hidden under the carpet/trims. So yes, engine bay, dash .... wipers ?

    I might get some of the tape you speak of and try wrapping the wiring that is there if it is adequate. I'm not very concerned about originality. Reliability is better than originality everytime where Citroens and wiring is concerned ( I swear 75% of all the reliability issues I've ever had have been wiring issues).

    Oh yes, your link... Thanks! $547 is about the same by the time you add in 10% GST They are probably the same harness from the same supplier!

    I like fuse boxes and relays ( I'll try and hide some relays for the headlights ... if nothing else it will protect the 60+ year old light switch!)

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Guys - if this of any use...

    I've been tidying up the harness on the 71 while it's out. Not sure if traction tape is the same as the D but this is a close match with the benefit of a not too sticky backing.

    5 Rolls Coroplast Adhesive Cloth Tape Wiring Harness Noise Damping 25m Long

    Again - not sure of the complexity of it all but I thought $547 for a harness would compare well to the cost of all the materials (likely 100s of dollars worth?). It would be interesting to know what your paying for all the materials Gerry.

    Hope this helps,

    Mark...
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  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Guys - if this of any use...

    I've been tidying up the harness on the 71 while it's out. Not sure if traction tape is the same as the D but this is a close match with the benefit of a not too sticky backing.

    5 Rolls Coroplast Adhesive Cloth Tape Wiring Harness Noise Damping 25m Long

    Again - not sure of the complexity of it all but I thought $547 for a harness would compare well to the cost of all the materials (likely 100s of dollars worth?). It would be interesting to know what your paying for all the materials Gerry.

    Hope this helps,

    Mark...
    Wow that is cheap that tape. That could be perfect. It's nothing like the PVC/Vinyl tape used on the DS's here. It would look quite good IMO though. Vastly better than the plastic split conduit that is all the fashion these days

    A DS wiring harness is far more complicated than the traction.... A real dogs breakfast (I've found really weird crap like headlights being powered by different fuses etc...) on DS's and ID's

    Here is the bias binding tape Gerry speaks of. I rekcon I might even have a few packets of this in a box somewhere:

    http://www.spotlightstores.com/sewin...68854034-black


    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 15th August 2016 at 02:55 PM.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Hi Shane,

    Late DS's used a cloth tape not dissimilar to this for the main loom. The sub-looms (AFAIK) are the plastic type... I've never seen a sub-loom in cloth.

    The original fabric tape has no adhesive backing so complicates the wrapping process. This tape has a light adhesive which is easy to unroll if you make a mistake but holds the wrapping in place as you work along...

    Cheers,

    Mark...

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    (I've found really weird crap like headlights being powered by different fuses etc...)
    For many manufacturers it is not "weird" Toyota for example.

    And, personally if wiring shorted and blew a headlight fuse. I'd be happy to have the other one remain working.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Hey Guys,

    Life is too short to be talking about doing your own wiring looms when you can buy replacement ones. I think you should just buy one of good reputation and with good fitting instructions and go from there. Just the time taken to be thinking about reusing connectors which are likely to be already broken, lost spring tension/plating or be very brittle when you can have new and strong ones. Save the time for the stuff you have to do because you can't find anyone else to do it or it is much better value to do it yourself.

    Cheers, Ken
    ds21bvh likes this.

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    Hey Guys,

    Life is too short to be talking about doing your own wiring looms when you can buy replacement ones. I think you should just buy one of good reputation and with good fitting instructions and go from there. Just the time taken to be thinking about reusing connectors which are likely to be already broken, lost spring tension/plating or be very brittle when you can have new and strong ones. Save the time for the stuff you have to do because you can't find anyone else to do it or it is much better value to do it yourself.

    Cheers, Ken
    But, but but .... Where is the fun in that ... The main reason is not everyone has $600 to spend on a loom! And a loom will not get you fuses and relays. Fuses I think are very important.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Shane,

    Late DS's used a cloth tape not dissimilar to this for the main loom. The sub-looms (AFAIK) are the plastic type... I've never seen a sub-loom in cloth.

    The original fabric tape has no adhesive backing so complicates the wrapping process. This tape has a light adhesive which is easy to unroll if you make a mistake but holds the wrapping in place as you work along...

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    Really .... Oh man, I should hang my head in shame .... We have a couple of '74 Dspecials, a 75 DS23 here .... and I'd never noticed the cloth tape

    seeya,
    shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with Ken's sentiments if it's affordable...it takes a lot of time to build up a harness.

    Particularly if your slow like me....

    However - I did so for the 69 as I could not buy a replacement which was correct in it's layout.

    You could then spend the time making sub-looms to cater for relay switching..

    Just playing devils advocate Shane...

    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Again - not sure of the complexity of it all but I thought $547 for a harness would compare well to the cost of all the materials (likely 100s of dollars worth?). It would be interesting to know what your paying for all the materials Gerry.

    Hope this helps,

    Mark...
    Hi Mark,
    Cost for wire is $183. 100 metres of 3 mm 30 metres each of 4mm, 5mm and 6mm. Black multi strand single core cable!
    Cheers Gerry

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Shane,
    The original fabric tape has no adhesive backing so complicates the wrapping process. This tape has a light adhesive which is easy to unroll if you make a mistake but holds the wrapping in place as you work along...

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    I used Bias Binding Tape on the loom for the Light 15. It was dead easy. Sticky stuff makes wrapping more difficult!
    I would have preferred the Lucas woven cotton binding, but it was unavailable at the time and this method has served well for over 20 years and looks in keeping with the period.
    Cheers Gerry

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    Hey Guys,

    Life is too short to be talking about doing your own wiring looms when you can buy replacement ones. I think you should just buy one of good reputation and with good fitting instructions and go from there. Just the time taken to be thinking about reusing connectors which are likely to be already broken, lost spring tension/plating or be very brittle when you can have new and strong ones. Save the time for the stuff you have to do because you can't find anyone else to do it or it is much better value to do it yourself.

    Cheers, Ken
    Some of us actually like to do the work themselves ------it is a hobby after all. If I was rolling in cash I might have considered a bespoke restoration, but then I would probably loose interest in it! All the connectors are varying sizes of ring ends that are crimped and soldered. It is easy to reuse them, and having saved wiring from two cars I have a good selection from which to choose the best ones!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Fellow Frogger! badabec's Avatar
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    Hello, I'm sure this lot will add a fuse box if needed

    Autosparks - Home of the world leading supplier of classic car wiring looms

    I put a Light 15 in the basket, delivery to Brisbane (OK to Greenblood, only ZIP I know), it takes off the VAT and with shipping comes to 198, about 350 AUD

    Any use?

    Peter
    Last edited by badabec; 15th August 2016 at 07:19 PM.

  20. #20
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    Mark's eBay tape ... 'Made in Germany', yet sold from China???

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Shane, check your emails! I just sent you a PDF of the 11BL wiring diagrams! Might be of assistance! I also have a loom out of the car if you wish to come and have a look at how they were originally!
    Cheers Gerry

  22. #22
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Gerry,

    would something like this do for pink sleeves ?

    Pink Fuel Hose Pipe FOR PIT Dirt Trail Bike ATV Quad Buggy GO Kart Motocross | eBay

    Thanks yes, I'm just trying to open the diagrams now. Autosparks is interesting (the weblink above) .... It looks like the Legere wiring harnesses are LHD only.... and the woven type.

    Can you remember what site you purchased the wire from ? It's VERY expensive just about everywhere to buy wire

    seeya,
    Shaen L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  23. #23
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    If you decline to buy wire, have you seen how much wire is in something like a Xantia or others of similar age? Should also be enough for a Traction in a rusty scrap D/CX and it would yield a suitable fuse box. Plenty of green, yellow, brown with a few bits of black thrown in in all of those.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Hi Gerry,

    would something like this do for pink sleeves ?

    Pink Fuel Hose Pipe FOR PIT Dirt Trail Bike ATV Quad Buggy GO Kart Motocross | eBay

    Thanks yes, I'm just trying to open the diagrams now. Autosparks is interesting (the weblink above) .... It looks like the Legere wiring harnesses are LHD only.... and the woven type.

    Can you remember what site you purchased the wire from ? It's VERY expensive just about everywhere to buy wire

    seeya,
    Shaen L.
    Hi Shane, these are the people I used. Single Core 5mm 30M Black Wire Cable 25 AMP Caravan Trailer 4x4 Automotive 12V | eBay
    I only ordered early yesterday morning and then your post appeared on AF! How's that for timing?
    They sent me an order despatched email last night so I am expecting very quick delivery. They are situated in Dingley Village near Dandenong so they are almost local!!
    Now I only have to wait and see the quality.
    Cheers Gerry

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    If you decline to buy wire, have you seen how much wire is in something like a Xantia or others of similar age? Should also be enough for a Traction in a rusty scrap D/CX and it would yield a suitable fuse box. Plenty of green, yellow, brown with a few bits of black thrown in in all of those.
    Hi David, Traction wiring is nothing like DS wiring. It would be way to light in gauge for a six volt system!
    Cheers Gerry

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