Re wire of 1971 Citroen id21...
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    Default Re wire of 1971 Citroen id21...

    Good evening all :-)

    just wondering if anyone can gice some advice on electrics? I have put in a second hand wiring harness from a 1972 Sedan into my earlier Safari... Not everything is hooked up yet but most of the dash area is. As advised I put in a in-line fuse from the battery and when I touch the positive with the end of it, it straight away blows that fuse.

    So what do I do to start tracing where it's got a short circuit? Disconnect stuff till it doesn't blow? I'm a bit stumped on where to start looking :-/ Kinda tempted to have a break from it for a few weeks but would love to get wiring working...

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    Any advice muchly appreciated!

    Cheers,
    Ben

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    A nominal 60 w 12 volt headlight globe in series with the battery works just as well at first power up. If there is is high current condition/ major short to ground the lamp will fully light up.

    At currents up to around 5 amps you will get a slightly red filament to a dim glim.

    And you don't need to have a several boxes of fuses on hand to continually destroy whilst trouble shooting. The lamp is "self healing".

    As to fault finding you have some "cross roads" to start at, the fuse block. This lets you disconnect large "chunks" of the circuit in a single stride.

    If removing all fuses doesn't remove the short, I'd be looking at the alternator / dynamo regulator or associated wiring. Or the wiring that supplies those "cross roads".

    Get yourself a decent multi meter and sharpen the positive probe up to needle point. Then you can check wiring by a "snake bite", in the insulation, even mid loom. I wipe of sealer over the puncture makes it close to good as new. Inside car, I generally don't worry resealing, in the engine bay it's wise.

    Best of luck car loom fault finding 80% logic and 20 % electrical skills, so don't be at all worried.

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    Cool thabkst heaps for all the advice! Will have to look up how to wire up the light globe.

    Does the alternator regulator have to be wired up even with not running?
    Should have another look again tomorrow :-)
    Hope I can get it sorted soon!
    Thanks,
    Ben

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    Thanks heaps"

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    Hi Ben,
    I would make sure you have not connected wires intended for the accessories terminal (behind the ashtray) to ground by mistake. There is a ground wire (also yellow) connected to a chassis bolt just to the right of the accessories terminal. It's easy to mix them up.
    Cheers,
    Mark...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Ben,
    I would make sure you have not connected wires intended for the accessories terminal (behind the ashtray) to ground by mistake. There is a ground wire (also yellow) connected to a chassis bolt just to the right of the accessories terminal. It's easy to mix them up.
    Cheers,
    Mark...
    G'day Mark,

    Yeah I know the ones you're talking about. I did ground the correct one as that's what I marked when I pulled out of other vehicle. Where exactly does the other one join onto? It wasn't conmected when I got to it so have been wondering about it ;-)

    Cheers,
    Ben

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    Yippee! I managed to get the passanger side fan working on the switch!

    Haha its something. What does the fuse do with the red on each end? That one blew...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushyben View Post
    Yippee! I managed to get the passanger side fan working on the switch!

    Haha its something. What does the fuse do with the red on each end? That one blew...



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    RHD Fuses




    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Re wire of 1971 Citroen id21...-ds-rhd-6-2-fuse-diagram.jpg  
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    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    RHD Fuses




    Cheers
    Chris
    Hi Chris,

    Just a potential addition - earlier cars utilise the 30 amp circuit breaker on the firewall (LHS) in lieu of an inline fuse for the long range inner lamps. I re-remembered this during my refurbishment of the 71 harness.

    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Chris,

    Just a potential addition - earlier cars utilise the 30 amp circuit breaker on the firewall (LHS) in lieu of an inline fuse for the long range inner lamps. I re-remembered this during my refurbishment of the 71 harness.

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    Hi Mark,
    The diagram is lifted from the latest version of 814 - for the RHD 6 + 2 fuse set-up.
    Must say 30 amp circuit breaker is a new one on me

    Back to Bushyben though, that red fuse connects to the accessory terminal and as you have suggested could be the cause of blown fuses - need to ensure that terminal is still fully insulated from the dash.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Hi Mark,
    The diagram is lifted from the latest version of 814 - for the RHD 6 + 2 fuse set-up.
    Must say 30 amp circuit breaker is a new one on me

    Back to Bushyben though, that red fuse connects to the accessory terminal and as you have suggested could be the cause of blown fuses - need to ensure that terminal is still fully insulated from the dash.

    Cheers
    Chris
    Ok, so if I connect the green wire going to the Ignition that's when the fuse blows. That's the fuse I have wired up in-line with the battery. That green one doesn't have power going to it so is that a earth or something? Bit daunting all this wiring to me :-/

    Thanks for all your help!

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    Have no idea what's happening... Should have a break and do other things :-( If I disconnect the ignition the wires that are meant to be turned on with ignition already have power going to them... So must have wires wrong some where! Only thing I could work out is which wire is for indicators as it turns on and off with indicator switch! Workef out the switch that turns on lights must be faulty as current only goes out when it's half way between turns of the light switch...

    Bit frustrated :-/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushyben View Post
    Have no idea what's happening... Should have a break and do other things :-( If I disconnect the ignition the wires that are meant to be turned on with ignition already have power going to them... So must have wires wrong some where! Only thing I could work out is which wire is for indicators as it turns on and off with indicator switch! Workef out the switch that turns on lights must be faulty as current only goes out when it's half way between turns of the light switch...

    Bit frustrated :-/

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    Sounds like time for a break - Hotrodelectric is AWOL wait until he's back on deck.

    Do you have the wiring diagrams for your model? Everything is colour coded, slow and steady and double check as you go.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Sounds like time for a break - Hotrodelectric is AWOL wait until he's back on deck.

    Do you have the wiring diagrams for your model? Everything is colour coded, slow and steady and double check as you go.

    Cheers
    Chris
    No I don't have the correct wiring diagrams... I need a 1972 and a 1970 or 1971 I think. They're a bit different I think.

    Yesh I'll have a break and do other things...

    Cheers,
    Ben

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushyben View Post
    No I don't have the correct wiring diagrams... I need a 1972 and a 1970 or 1971 I think. They're a bit different I think.

    Yesh I'll have a break and do other things...

    Cheers,
    Ben

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    814-1 /814-2 will have you covered, the latest update has full RHD diagrams. Do your car(s) have 6 fuses on the LHS and 2 on the right?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    814-1 /814-2 will have you covered, the latest update has full RHD diagrams. Do your car(s) have 6 fuses on the LHS and 2 on the right?

    Cheers
    Chris
    Ok, where do I get 814-1/814-2 from? Yeah there are six fuses on left hand side and two on right...

    Cheers,
    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushyben View Post
    Ok, where do I get 814-1/814-2 from? Yeah there are six fuses on left hand side and two on right...

    Cheers,
    Ben

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    This link should get you there. . .
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv0b25gpm...14-manual?dl=0

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    There's a cut out (breaker) on the side of the battery box (small bakelite rectangle with 2 bolted terminals) even in late cars with the inline fuses for the inner headlamps.

    You could also use a multimeter to find an incorrectly earthed wire. If the harness is flailing around with loose wires, it may simply be a loose end making contact with the body, so be careful of that. If you are working on just the dash area, disconnect the front guard and rear harnesses until you find the fault. Try leaving the dash cluster out. If one car had a battery starter solenoid and the other didn't, then remember there is meant to be flying lead behind the cluster for the cars without that solenoid and the polarity is reversed on the start wire from the ignition switch accordingly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Hi Mark,
    Must say 30 amp circuit breaker is a new one on me

    Cheers
    Chris
    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    There's a cut out (breaker) on the side of the battery box (small bakelite rectangle with 2 bolted terminals) even in late cars with the inline fuses for the inner headlamps.
    Ignore this post Bushy, this is for my own edification

    Mark/ David,
    I'd never seen or heard of the 30 A breaker you both mention, not on my car ('74 D Special) and no evidence that it has ever been fitted - I went looking, and by chance found this. . . #4





    If this is the part it appears to be an option for cars with air-conditioning?

    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Re wire of 1971 Citroen id21...-30-breaker.jpg   Re wire of 1971 Citroen id21...-30-breaker-air-con-option.jpg  
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  20. #20
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    Yes, that's the part I was referring to. It does look to be an AC only item. If it's not on the car in question, then it would be one to ignore. Like the pointless vented bumpers on some cars, it might have appeared on some cars intended for dealer fitted AC never fitted or later removed???
    Last edited by David S; 15th August 2016 at 08:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    There's a cut out (breaker) on the side of the battery box (small bakelite rectangle with 2 bolted terminals) even in late cars with the inline fuses for the inner headlamps.

    You could also use a multimeter to find an incorrectly earthed wire. If the harness is flailing around with loose wires, it may simply be a loose end making contact with the body, so be careful of that. If you are working on just the dash area, disconnect the front guard and rear harnesses until you find the fault. Try leaving the dash cluster out. If one car had a battery starter solenoid and the other didn't, then remember there is meant to be flying lead behind the cluster for the cars without that solenoid and the polarity is reversed on the start wire from the ignition switch accordingly.
    Is this the cutout switch you're talking about? The front wing wiring isn't connected and I'll disconnect the rear wires before playing with it again.


    Does the alternator need to be fully wired up for electrics to work with out it running?

    Break from wires for the week I think. Hope I can get some where this weekend with it :-(

    Cheers,
    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Must say 30 amp circuit breaker is a new one on me
    Hi Chris - here is a pic...

    It's the thing on the LHS with the two rubber covers...

    Cheers,

    Mark...

    Re wire of 1971 Citroen id21...-imag0645.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Chris - here is a pic...

    It's the thing on the LHS with the two rubber covers...

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    Hi Mark,
    Thanks for the pic, must say I can't recall ever seeing one of those. On my car the main loom appears just below that point.

    What do you have running via the breaker, 30 amps is a large draw before it cuts out?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Hi Chris - this is a factory fitment, not something I've done. It's running both the QI inner swivellers...

    Cheers,

    Mark...
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  25. #25
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    It looks to be the same 30A item used on the battery box should you need to find another. The in-line fuses were set at 10A each.

    I can't place the part Ben is showing. (Don't drop it.) It should run without an alternator / regulator if the battery is good.
    Last edited by David S; 16th August 2016 at 10:44 AM.

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