DS Ignition Switch
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 19 of 19
Like Tree3Likes
  • 1 Post By forumnoreason
  • 1 Post By marc61
  • 1 Post By badabec

Thread: DS Ignition Switch

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stamford, UK
    Posts
    331

    Default DS Ignition Switch

    Hello gents

    A couple of weeks ago I acquired a 21EFi saloon from a barn in France. I'm presently working through numerous issues, trying to get it back on the road soon. Its only done 93000km and is in good shape apart from the paintwork. It's been stored for at least 12 years.

    The thing that has stumped me is the ignition switch. The ignition key is broken, most of it remains in the switch, so today I removed the dashboard and set about removing the switch. One of the cone shaped nuts is in a recess and very difficult to get at so I'm getting nowhere at present. Have tried pliers and hammering a socket onto it but no joy. Anyway I'm thinking even if I do get it out the ignition switch will probably need replacing as no doubt the key broke for a good reason. The price of DS ignition switches is way too ridiculous for me so I am looking for another solution.

    I know the brown and white wires leaving the ignition switch go to the 12V feed and the starter solenoid, so fitting a starter button is an easy option. But the rest of the wires go to a white connector. I'm thinking these are for the circuits that go live once the ignition is switched on (coil supply, ECU supply, indicators, heater fan etc). Is that correct? If so a single switch could be fitted to switch all of these circuits on?

    When I look at the white connector that's on the car (not on the ignition switch) it's got two rows of 3 terminals:

    Top row: yellow wire green marker; black wire no marker; black wire red marker
    Bottom row: yellow wire violet marker; yellow wire no marker; black wire blue marker

    Advertisement


    Does each one of these need a +12V feed via a switch? I'm thinking this could be straightforward but am I missing something?

    Cheers

    Marc
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

  2. #2
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marc61 View Post
    Hello gents

    A couple of weeks ago I acquired a 21EFi saloon from a barn in France. I'm presently working through numerous issues, trying to get it back on the road soon. Its only done 93000km and is in good shape apart from the paintwork. It's been stored for at least 12 years.

    The thing that has stumped me is the ignition switch. The ignition key is broken, most of it remains in the switch, so today I removed the dashboard and set about removing the switch. One of the cone shaped nuts is in a recess and very difficult to get at so I'm getting nowhere at present. Have tried pliers and hammering a socket onto it but no joy. Anyway I'm thinking even if I do get it out the ignition switch will probably need replacing as no doubt the key broke for a good reason. The price of DS ignition switches is way too ridiculous for me so I am looking for another solution.

    I know the brown and white wires leaving the ignition switch go to the 12V feed and the starter solenoid, so fitting a starter button is an easy option. But the rest of the wires go to a white connector. I'm thinking these are for the circuits that go live once the ignition is switched on (coil supply, ECU supply, indicators, heater fan etc). Is that correct? If so a single switch could be fitted to switch all of these circuits on?

    When I look at the white connector that's on the car (not on the ignition switch) it's got two rows of 3 terminals:

    Top row: yellow wire green marker; black wire no marker; black wire red marker
    Bottom row: yellow wire violet marker; yellow wire no marker; black wire blue marker

    Does each one of these need a +12V feed via a switch? I'm thinking this could be straightforward but am I missing something?

    Cheers

    Marc
    At the risk of something, I'm not sure what, go to my landmark treatise here. I was just finishing it up for Bushyben when you posted. Of course, any questions, you know where to find me.

    It should currently be the last post. (#22)
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stamford, UK
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Thanks very much HRE.

    There are 3 inputs and 3 outputs at that white connector, so it's just a case of having switches to connect the right ones. The only difference on my car from what you describe below is that I've got 3 black wires and 3 yellow wires. I've not got a black wire green sleeve, but a yellow wire green sleeve instead - guess it's the same.

    Cheers

    Marc





    There will be 3 (hydraulic shift) or 4 (manual shift) pair of wires on that switch. 3 (4) inputs and 3 (4) outputs. Those inputs and outputs are:
    Black wire, red sleeve: battery in for coil
    Black wire, blue sleeve: battery out to coil
    Black wire, green sleeve: in from "red" fuse
    Yellow wire, mauve sleeve: fused ignition output to instrument cluster, heater fan, wiper motor, wiper switch
    Black wire, no sleeve: in from "green" fuse
    Yellow wire, no sleeve: fused ignition output to regulator at "BOB", brake light switch, turn signal switch, and rear defroster if you have it.
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

  4. #4
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,533

    Default

    Thanks for spotting that. I've made the appropriate correction over at that page. You're right, that is supposed to be a yellow wire with a green sleeve.

    Damnit, I'm supposed to be more professional than that.......
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ici.
    Posts
    2,560

    Default

    AF should have a gold coin donation box for Bill! I'd like to buy you a stiff drink or ten one day mate.
    daffyduck likes this.

  6. #6
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    AF should have a gold coin donation box for Bill! I'd like to buy you a stiff drink or ten one day mate.
    The sentiment is greatly appreciated. If I ever get to make it down-under........
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stamford, UK
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Thanks for spotting that. I've made the appropriate correction over at that page. You're right, that is supposed to be a yellow wire with a green sleeve.

    Damnit, I'm supposed to be more professional than that.......
    No worries, appreciate your determination to get things right!

    Just to complete the story, today I cut off the terminals on the back of the ignition switch, pulled back the rubber covers and soldered female bayonet connectors to the 3 supply wires (red, black, green). This enabled the white connector to be used and 3 normal switches on the dash to be connected. Now with a starter button I can get it running!

    A bit crude I know. But hey it works!

    Cheers

    Marc
    Vincenzo likes this.
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Mallorca, Spain
    Posts
    435

    Default

    RFID immobiliser, some £35 on Amazon?


  9. #9
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,533

    Default

    I like the thought of an RFID setup. Not only does it make your car considerably harder to steal, it's hella convenient when installed with that stop/start button (you don't have to install that). Installing that correctly in a D would be very difficult to find and defeat.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stamford, UK
    Posts
    331

    Default

    I fitted a simple black start button - undid the cigarette lighter and fitted it into the hole, neat and simple. But I now need to fit an immobiliser and you've got me thinking.

    A simple immobiliser would do I guess, there's some very cheap ones from China on eBay, might be worth a try. But I'm also thinking because it's an EFI car wouldnt it be neat to have an immobiliser with a remote that's sophisticated enough to immobilise/activate but also able to do a remote start. Press one code to activate then another to operate the solenoid and start the car - get the suspension up by the time you reach the vehicle. Just need to remember to leave it in neutral! Maybe something like this The safe Immobiliser for every Vehicle!Simple Programming and Installation

    There's probably some law against doing that but it'd be handy for a Citroen!

    Cheers

    Marc
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! badabec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ongar / England
    Posts
    832

    Default

    What are going to do with all those 10 seconds you'll save?
    GreenBlood likes this.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Vincenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    161

    Default

    I did something almost exactly the same a couple of years ago. The ignition-barrel et al was removed and replaced with a gaudy cheap red button from Jaycar... and I made a switch box that duplicated the 6 pin connections exactly, using 3 switches to bridge. The wires were fed through the bottom bolster and the switch box was velcro'd under the steering wheel. When my new right-hand drive ignition switch finally arrived I had grown to like the temporary arrangement and didn't want to do the proper fixup. Anyone want to buy a brand new rhd late D ignition switch?
    DS23 Pallas BVM Vert Argente - in ground up restoration, soon to be BVH.
    DSpecial 4speed Beige Vanneau, previous ; XM 2.0, maroon, my first.
    And a variety of the usual crapboxes before seeing the light. Except my Mini Cooper with the 3.4 cam and twin webers - that wasn't a POS.

    Bikes -
    Ducati GTS860, CB350, XT550, Z500, T250, XR200, ag90.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,304

    Default

    I kind of like this idea too. That is one thing that is nice about the Prius, keyless entry and start. As I suspected it is not that hard to implement even if not to the Toyota standard. e.g. You can only operate the lock you are standing next too when unlocking the car, if you stand next to the drivers door and note by the interior lights that it can 'see' the key somebody standing at the passenger door can not open that door. Obviously it has multiple antennas around the car so it knows exactly where the key is. Possible issues to resolve:

    1. Remote entry, possible on a CX but more difficult on a D I would think.
    2. D-Jetronic and L-Jetronic start the pump on starter cranking. Not so LE-Jetronic on the CX 2500 which runs the pump for 5 secs on ignition on. Should not be too hard to duplicate though.
    3 What are we doing with steering locking. At present we have to put the key in and turn to disengage. Do we just leave the key in to hold the lock off.
    Mine

    CX Prestige
    Toyota Prius

    In the family

    Xantia SX

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stamford, UK
    Posts
    331

    Default

    I took the ignition lock ring off the steering column, it's just held on by two Allen keys. Having had a broken key, a duff ignition switch and one nut that holds it in place that I simply can't undo, I didn't want there to be any chance that the steering would lock up. Like Vincenzo I'm just just happy to have switches in the car to enable it to be started right now

    There's only circuit that provides power to the ECU, fuel pump and ignition so press that switch and you get 1-2s of fuel pump activity, then press the starter button and the engine starts. So conceptually a two button remote could do that.

    Meanwhile I've just replaced the rubber fuel hoses at the pump. Discovered a slight leak on the pressure side, then when taking the old ones off they just broke in half!

    Cheers

    Marc
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stamford, UK
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Could someone give me a steer on the earlier ignition switches fitted to the D, before the large key ignition switch was introduced. Did they all use a small key and a starter button? Did the small key switch have connections on the back to switch on the 3 circuits (coil, wipers, indicators)?

    Thanks

    Marc
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Bedford, UK
    Posts
    705

    Default

    Mines in bits so i can't go and check for you. Someone like Hotrodelectric will tell you if I am wrong, but here goes: the ignition switch used before yours (so I'm talking about the mid-period cars) was coupled with either a starter button (if a manual car) or a pair of contacts within the steering cluster and operated by the gear (if a bvh car). The starter button (or contacts in the dash) serve to operate the starter motor and inasmuch work independently of the rest of the ignition circuit. You can press that button or move the gearstick and the starter will do it's job and turn the engine over - but you'll have no spark. In both cases (manual and bvh) the ignition key unit/ switch has four terminals on the back. Putting in the key and turning connects those terminals as two pairs (i.e. two circuits are completed). One of those circuits is to the coil. The other circuits, when closed, powers up the dash warning lights and gauges, the indicators and the fresh air blower motor switch. I don't think the wipers are dependent on having the ignition switched on.

    Hope this helps.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    Putting in the key and turning connects those terminals as two pairs (i.e. two circuits are completed). One of those circuits is to the coil. The other circuits, when closed, powers up the dash warning lights and gauges, the indicators and the fresh air blower motor switch. I don't think the wipers are dependent on having the ignition switched on.

    Hope this helps.
    Same switching system as used in my11BL! Only I have to pull on a cable to operate the starter motor!
    Cheers Gerry

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stamford, UK
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Budge View Post
    Mines in bits so i can't go and check for you. Someone like Hotrodelectric will tell you if I am wrong, but here goes: the ignition switch used before yours (so I'm talking about the mid-period cars) was coupled with either a starter button (if a manual car) or a pair of contacts within the steering cluster and operated by the gear (if a bvh car). The starter button (or contacts in the dash) serve to operate the starter motor and inasmuch work independently of the rest of the ignition circuit. You can press that button or move the gearstick and the starter will do it's job and turn the engine over - but you'll have no spark. In both cases (manual and bvh) the ignition key unit/ switch has four terminals on the back. Putting in the key and turning connects those terminals as two pairs (i.e. two circuits are completed). One of those circuits is to the coil. The other circuits, when closed, powers up the dash warning lights and gauges, the indicators and the fresh air blower motor switch. I don't think the wipers are dependent on having the ignition switched on.

    Hope this helps.
    Thanks for explaining that Budge. Do you know if the 4 terminals on the back of the switch are male bayonets?

    Cheers

    Marc
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Bedford, UK
    Posts
    705

    Default

    Do you mean flat spade ends? Anyway they are neither bayonet nor spade. They are male bullet ends. You will be able to find an image of a repro on the sites of the online sellers

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •