C5 HDI 2005 non starter
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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Default C5 HDI 2005 non starter

    Hi there first post and already asking questions. I will be looking at C5 non runner tomorrow which has not been started in over a year.unsure of the real reason but I don't mind starting to trouble shoot. As it hast been sitting so long the complete diesel fuel system will be full of bacteria and fungus so this will need to be cleaned before I can get to the Root Cause. Is there is a good product and method to clean out the diesel system and fuel lines and will the common rail need to be dismantled? Also anyone on the Sunny Coast with access to lexia I can borrow? Or Brissy since I work down there. Will see if it is a worthwhile project as it will be my first diesel ever!!

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    Highly unlikely to be full of bacteria, it does not live in the fuel but in any water in the tank. The diesel is likely gone off dump in some chemtech or syphon some fuel out. Do the latter then the former. If the tank has been kept sealed it is most likely fine.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Yep I would assume the fuel will be off and would think the moisture content may be high. Can the fuel filters be cleaned until I work out if it has a pump or starter problem

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    Hi dimistyle,
    Why be so pessimystic ?
    I looked at a C5 petrol that had sat for several years with out any starting, under a car cover under a tree. I connected my jump starter to it to look at the mileage, and it perked up a bit so I hit the starter and it fired up after a turn on two. The owner could not believe it and thought I had a magic box
    Interestingly it was idling for a short while as we checked a few things and the height sorted etc and it then stalled and would not restart. The owner then checked and said there is no fuel showing on the gauge. More fuel from a can fixed it. So do not over think the problems until you check it out.
    That urban myth about the bacteria is mostly about "experts" drumming up business from scared punters. Ignore it ! I have been playing with diesels for my jobs for 35 years and in other countries too and have never seen that problem.
    Good luck, Jaahn

    PS Two of us got a 2ton diesel forklift going in couple of hours, in PNG after it had sat outside in the tropical rain and weather for about 4 years. The tank was half full of water. Drained the water, used the fuel again, had it going in about 2 hrs and used it to load a truck with the rest of the sawmill machinery on the site and then sold the fork on to an interested watcher.
    Ahhh the good ol'days when I was younger and up for a challenge.
    Last edited by jaahn; 4th August 2016 at 10:30 PM.

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    Check filter it should be clean giving you confidence, move on to finding the issue.

    Bacteria may not be right word, but it does exist, I have experienced it, you must have water though.
    87 S1 205 GTI / GTI6 powered a project underway
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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Thanks all you are giving me confidence that this won't be a mission. I think I have read too many UK forums where they replace all the pumps filters and pressure regulators as well as injectors and finally find the starter motor has worn bushes and not able to crank the engine to built up pressure. ...

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    Yes, here in the UK they always go for the most complicated answer possible. The idea of just turning the key and seeing what happens is anathema to them. My neighbour wanted to pull the gearbox out of his Jag because the reversing lights stopped working. I just cleaned up the plug...(yes, they did work then)
    Don't forget to take decent, charged, batteries with you and proper jump leads. Engines want to run, they only need the three vital ingredients (fuel, compression and ignition)
    Good luck

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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Diesel fuel doesn't go off like petrol does, it can last for years!
    I really mean that, a little while back, I helped a friend with an old double decker bus, which hadn't been started for over 20 years. We put some new batteries on it, and I then bled the air out of the fuel system. After a couple of tries on the starter it started.
    Why should a diesel car be any different?
    The main reasons why a Diesel engine won't start are air contamination in the fuel, lack of compression, or fuel starvation... There is no ignition!
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    I can't stress enough, THERE CAN BE NO AIR IN THE FUEL SYSTEM! Even a small air bubble in the suction side around the fuel filter will stop a Diesel engine. Diesels can be troublesome after the fuel filter has been changed. Once the air has been purged, they are usually extremely reliable, in a way that petrol never can be!
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Thanks Smiffy will read up about fuel purging a C5 sounds like the trick. 1st I will check it can turn over so there is no mechanical damage then get down to the fuel ta

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    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    This may be off target.

    When I first got my 2005 HDI it had intermittent electrical problems:
    shutting down all but the essential running items, and the battery occasionally went flat overnight.

    All highly intermittent .. it would be weeks between "episodes."

    I put in a new battery, but some of the symptoms remained.
    I also tried cleaning / tightening all fuse box connectors, and earths.

    For whatever reasons a few weeks after, touch wood, no problems and very reliable.

    I hear that bad earths can cause issues, dunno if that was the culprit in my car.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    D Special 1974
    Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    1986 2CV6
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    DS23 1973 Pallas

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    Yes, modern cars whether petrol or diesel can suffer from electrical gremlins, and most of these are earth related.
    I like old school diesels, like BX, early xantia, xm, and so on. Maybe not as powerful, but so simple to work with...
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    Hi
    The good ol'days when a bit of air in the fuel line will be the only(mostly) thing that stops a diesel are unfortunately gone with the march to electronic controls However it is still relevant.

    With French electronics the other list could be extensive but not likely. Start with the basics and a good battery or two. Or really good jumper leads not the usual crap ones. I have welding leads

    Mathew I do not deny there are problems that come in the water in diesel, but I have never had to deal with it in my experience. Always just the usual basics and possibly a very restricted use of instant start to get a 'kick'. (In PNG used petrol sparelingly !)
    Ask for ideas if you need them !
    Jaahn

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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Yes the good old days loved our BX16 and several Pugs. Time to get modernised to ECUs. Had a couple of Passats that were all computer controlled and even the VW dealer couldn't diagnosis a cracked head as the fault codes didn't pick it up. Had to diagnose myself and return it to them to repair under warranty:/

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    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    Def use heavy leads to jump start ... I ended up using two sets last time ...

    I'm "investing" in one of those new-fangled portable boxes that jump-start tanks, powers your phone, (and other devices...)
    they recommend a higher maH rating for 2 litre diesels.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    D Special 1974
    Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    1986 2CV6
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    DS23 1973 Pallas

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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    I carry some extremely heavy duty jump leads, the kind you can start a 15 litre truck with! The shitty ones you can buy from most car shops are nowhere near good enough. They are usually too short, and the cable is not heavy enough. If you have to crank over for any length of time, those leads will likely get very hot, and melt.
    I also have a portable jump pack, with a compressor in it. A most useful device!
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    skp
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    Actually.... diesels DO have an ignition - of sorts. They're called glow plugs. If they're faulty, it won't start...
    Just for fun, give a squirt of Start Ya Bastard into the intake ( take off the flex hose at the manifold junction - squirt - close hose quickly). Try to start. If the engine then runs, replace your glow plugs or their transformer.
    skp

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skp View Post
    Actually.... diesels DO have an ignition - of sorts. They're called glow plugs. If they're faulty, it won't start...
    Just for fun, give a squirt of Start Ya Bastard into the intake ( take off the flex hose at the manifold junction - squirt - close hose quickly). Try to start. If the engine then runs, replace your glow plugs or their transformer.
    skp
    I'd define glow plugs as heating device, personally.

    And "transformers" aren't a DC device. Do you mean relay perhaps ?

    Trying start Ya bastard is a good suggestion. And it works a treat on "stubborn" lawn mowers too,

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    Default Caution for starting fluid !

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I'd define glow plugs as heating device, personally.
    And "transformers" aren't a DC device. Do you mean relay perhaps ?
    Trying start Ya bastard is a good suggestion. And it works a treat on "stubborn" lawn mowers too,
    Hi
    Yes glow plugs are heating devices not igniters. Their failure may cause non starting though as said. Activated by relays yes

    However some cautions on using Start Ya Bastard and all other starting fluids on diesels. If you use long squirts and the fluid builds up it can;
    1 self ignite because of the glow plugs and burn in the manifolds unnoticed untill the smoke comes out
    2 in excessive use crack the piston tops because of preignition
    You have been warned. Use only short squirts while cranking and let the engine turn over long enough to clear the last lot before the next squirt.
    As it is actually ether do not breathe in the stuff or you may pass out. Ditto at the exhaust pipe if it does not fire. Outside use only.
    Jaahn

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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Had a good look yesterday engine cranks so not a mechanical issue. Display say economy mode so will need to clear this mode to get it running. Will make a decision today if I will purchase.
    Thanks for all advice

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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skp View Post
    Actually.... diesels DO have an ignition - of sorts. They're called glow plugs. If they're faulty, it won't start...
    Just for fun, give a squirt of Start Ya Bastard into the intake ( take off the flex hose at the manifold junction - squirt - close hose quickly). Try to start. If the engine then runs, replace your glow plugs or their transformer.
    skp
    Need to correct you here.
    Some diesels don't have glow plugs. The ford transit from the early 80's onwards for example.
    Large truck, or bus engines, locomotives.... They don't either.
    The purpose of glow plugs, is not to ignite anything, but to get red hot so that cold atomised fuel passing over it can get hot quickly to aid starting.
    Once the initial start has happened, just compressing the air in the cylinder is enough to make it hot enough to explode the fuel.
    I would need to get very technical to explain why some cars don't need glow plugs, which is to do with direct, or indirect injection.
    If anyone is interested to know, pm me.
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    CitroŽn, what else? smiffy1071's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimistyle View Post
    Had a good look yesterday engine cranks so not a mechanical issue. Display say economy mode so will need to clear this mode to get it running. Will make a decision today if I will purchase.
    Thanks for all advice
    These cars do go into economy mode to save the battery. You will find that the windows and radio won't work until the engine is started.
    Mine does this sometimes. It's nothing to worry about at all.
    jaahn likes this.
    2005 C5 2.0 VTR Hdi 138, 1986 Kawasaki GPz 750G2

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    Quote Originally Posted by skp View Post
    Actually.... diesels DO have an ignition - of sorts. They're called glow plugs. If they're faulty, it won't start...
    Just for fun, give a squirt of Start Ya Bastard into the intake ( take off the flex hose at the manifold junction - squirt - close hose quickly). Try to start. If the engine then runs, replace your glow plugs or their transformer.
    skp

    The Glow plugs in a C5 2ltr Hdi are only heated during the start mode when the ambient temp is 3deg or lower, measured by the sensor in the LH side mirror. However they do have an after start run mode, where activation takes place for up to 60 secs after the engine has started, to smooth out cold idle regardless of ambient temp. And one or more faulty plugs won't stop the others from working.

    If an engine needs easy start to get it going it's a sure sign of low starting compression. Nothing else.
    But as jaahn has stated if you use the stuff be careful, I've seen bent con rods from it's overuse and one apprentice put himself to sleep by squirting the stuff around in the closed cabin of a truck. And he slept right through smoko. He he he.
    GreenBlood and jaahn like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy1071 View Post
    These cars do go into economy mode to save the battery. You will find that the windows and radio won't work until the engine is started.
    Mine does this sometimes. It's nothing to worry about at all.
    Economy mode should be anywhere around 25-40 mins after the engine is turned off. Perfectly normal and correct. But sometimes a pain in the butt.

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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Will not be using easy start at this stage. Still after someone with Lexia to see if any obvious sensor failures but 1st tow it home tomorrow.

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