Where to get AL4 automatic gearbox oil for Citroen C5 2.0 2003 in Australia
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Thread: Where to get AL4 automatic gearbox oil for Citroen C5 2.0 2003 in Australia

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    Default Where to get AL4 automatic gearbox oil for Citroen C5 2.0 2003 in Australia

    Hi.

    ANSWER TO THE TOPIC:
    For AL4 gearboxes you can either use Penrite Full Synthetic ATF or Nulon Full Synthetic ATF ("as the recommended fluid - Esso LT 71141 has not shown any benefits from its use") [Credit: Sherman;1465328 seasink;1465332 jaahn;1465337]

    MORE INFORMATION REGARDING FIXING THE AL4 GEARBOX (fluid change and two solenoids change):
    - There is no need to pull the whole valve body apart to replace two solenoids
    - Wiping (the valve body) with unsuitable rag may cause more trouble than you started with
    - The setting of the detent spring with the roller should be done by previously marking it and care to get it as it was originally positioned (the factory has a tool for it but not necessary if care is taken)
    - The vital part is refilling the oil level: [CREDIT: jaahn;1465337]
    You will need the following tools. Long necked funnel, sockets or spanners big enough for the drain plugs, long extension with socket for filling hole. Proceed as follows
    1. Get transmission to operating temp, 10k drive should do it.
    2. Support car level high enough so you can undo the drain plug.
    3. Remove filler plug near gear selector. May need to move gear lever to D to get access.
    4. Undo large drain plug and remove assembly, clean. Catch oil in container
    - Just a note on the drain plug and level tube. There are two type that were fitted.
    5. Refit drain plug assembly and then put 4 litres of oil in through the top.
    6. Run engine and move gear lever through all positions., Let engine run for a few minutes.
    7. Keep engine running and remove centre drain plug, some oil will run out, when oil stream breaks into drips, refit centre drain plug.
    You will waste 100ml of oil or so but this is the way Continentals do it and is the only way to get the level right. If you try and guess the right amount you run the risk of running the transmission with insufficient oil in it [CREDIT: Greg C;1465974]


    This is my first post so here's a little bit of an introduction.
    I got a 406 Coupe manual as a gift over a year ago and the gearbox broke down 2 days after clutch replacement (6 months ago), then I bought a 170k ML5T gearbox from Sydney that was taken out of a sedan (different differential) and took it to the same guys that replaced the gearbox in Sunshine and they put the 'new' gearbox in and it broke down 9 days after the new gearbox replacement. It was making a whining noise while I was driving but I was without any funds after all those issues so I couldn't really look into it. In the meantime I bought an s60 2.4t with rego just so I could get to work but it ended up being a lemon and I traveled 46km and the turbo blown on the way back from work (2 days I owned that car!). Anyway I saved up yet again, and was looking to get a '99 Pulsar off my mate but my father didn't like it so I had to take it back.

    Now, my father convinced me into purchasing a '03 C5 wagon from Sydney with 'only' 70k on the clock. The test drive went good and the whole car seemed fine, so we bought the car

    However, we drove it 250km from Sydney and the gearbox went into limp mode - "service" was displayed on dash. It happened when the cruise control tried to keep the speed up, reduced the gear to 3rd as we were climbing a hill. After restarting the car we could drive fine on gear 3 but I didn't want to drive all the way to Melbourne on 3rd gear and keeping the revs over 3.5k. So we pulled over at Yaas petrol station and left the car there for the truck to pick it up (2 weeks ago). The truck brought the car yesterday and my father took it to a 'transmission specialist' in Hoppers Crossing. The guy said (after charging $55) there are 3 codes and he gave my father the following list:

    6 Fault in pressure regulation
    (variation/recommendation)
    intermittent fault

    8DH/141 Unknown Code
    133 Vehicle speed transmitted by the ABS (LAN)
    Remote Intermittent fault

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    Whatever the '3 codes' described above mean I have realised that probably no one in Melbourne knows how to fix a french auto transmission (or anything French that is car related).
    I am currently downloading a VirtualBox, where I can install my Windows XP, so I can run DIAGBOX (Lexia 3) on my windows 10 laptop.
    After it's done downloading I'll hook up Lexia 3 cables to OBDII port and my computer so I can test what the problems are.
    I assume I will have to change the oil anyway so I'm not even going to wait for the downloads now - I'm just hoping there is no solenoid problems.


    Regardless, where can I get the automatic transmission oil for my C5 so I can service the gearbox. I'm pretty sure the recommended oil is ESSO LT71141, however I am unable to find it anywhere in Melbourne. Are there any other oils I can use for this gearbox?


    Thanks in advance
    Michael


    Last edited by NexxeR121; 9th August 2016 at 06:10 PM.
    - '99 Peugeot 406 Coupe 3.0 Manual - 2nd gearbox broken
    - '02 Volvo s60 2.4T - blown turbo
    - '03 Citroen C5 2.0 Automatic (AL4) - gearbox going into LIMP MODE

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    Nulon full synthetic
    The Garage in Woodend

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    - '99 Peugeot 406 Coupe 3.0 Manual - 2nd gearbox broken
    - '02 Volvo s60 2.4T - blown turbo
    - '03 Citroen C5 2.0 Automatic (AL4) - gearbox going into LIMP MODE

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    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    What happened with the 406 gearboxes? They've always been bullet proof for us. Mines about to tick over 380000 kms and a mate of Mines manual coupe the same. And they get a very hard time!

    Here's a picture of mine doing what it does best. And a lot of other times before and after. Never had a gearbox related issue. Where to get AL4 automatic gearbox oil for Citroen C5 2.0 2003 in Australia-1469618134582.jpg
    2011 Renault Koleos manual petrol, yes it's boring, but not as boring as:
    2017 Renault Koleos auto

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    The real thing is at ESSO LT 71141Imperial Oil & Chemical

    The AL4 gearbox seems to take up half of this forum. There should be a warning about it. Newer C5s use an excellent Japanese made 6 speed transmission.
    UFO and CC207 like this.

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    Hi NexxeR121
    I have used and recommend Penrite Multi Vehicle full synthetic, as do many others here. It is available everywhere and at a good price. There has been a lot of discussion about the correct fluid here on AF. Probably Nulon full synthetic is OK too.
    However IMHO it is a complete waste of money and effort to get the original spec Esso fluid as it is an old spec fluid from last century, which has not proven to have any extra benefits except to line some dealers pockets. Sometimes at 5 to 10 times the cost would you believe

    Google it on here if you like to get endless discussion. Also important is the correct procedure to do the oil change CORRECTLY so you do not have to immediately correct what you did.

    The fault 6 Pressure regulation etc is the faulty solenoid problem. So it will need changing sooner or later. Changing the oil may do a lot of good but it will not renew a faulty solenoid. Buy two on ebay for the best price and get ready to do the job. Google it on here too for lots of more information !!
    Jaahn
    PS fault 133 is something else ?? but probably will not help a problem.
    Last edited by jaahn; 27th July 2016 at 10:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NexxeR121 View Post


    Thanks in advance
    Michael
    Hi Michael, that is a truly unbelievable run of bad luck you have had, and i really hope things take a positive turn from here.
    There is, however, a regular poster who has a great deal of expertise with Diagbox/Lexia, AL4 gearboxes, and Citroens, so should be able to speak your language on all that stuff. So if you sit tight I would expect and hope that he will be here with some constructive suggestions quite soon. Also has a thing for volvo turbos so you never know your luck.

    There was another thread recently where Ken was using someone for gearbox work, who i gather was familiar with these items. Does anyone recall which thread that was? I think the name of the specialist was discussed, and is in Melbourne.

    Cheers.

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Better get the solenoids replaced sooner rather than later. When you do that you get a lot of oil out of the gearbox which is good. Any specialist Citroen mechanic should be able to help. It might be a good idea to do a few oil changes first as I will lay money it has never been done. I hope you got the C5 at a good price so you have some left over to do some maintenance


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman View Post
    The Garage in Woodend
    How much would the replacement of the 2 solenoids and oil cost in "The Garage" in Woodend? Is he able to do it in a day? Does he have the required solenoids?

    Quote Originally Posted by cav91 View Post
    What happened with the 406 gearboxes?
    The mechanic from Sunshine said that he is almost certain that the synchronizers are the cause of the first broken gearbox.

    I did not go back to him when the second gearbox broke down as I was just agitated.
    But this is how the second, currently installed transmission system more or less behaves:
    - Clutch works fine as it disengages from the flywheel and the wheels move freely
    - Car will not move when it is in gear
    - When the engine is running and the car is in any gear, as I release the clutch the car lowers the rpm until it stalls

    I'm assuming it is the same thing wrong with the car - possibly broken synchronizers. I think it could be a locked up flywheel as well as it was machined by them and it could be too thin (?). I am almost certain however, that it must be something in between the clutch and the differential (from flywheel or input shaft / bearing to the gears / synchronizers)

    My 406 coupe manual has over 250,000km on the clock and the engine was taken care of, so did the gearbox - until the clutch was changed. I would like to know what the mechanics over at the garage in Sunshine did to the car because I enjoyed driving that car and I would like the enjoyment back. The combination of comfort, power, sound and visuals make this car a great catch. The only downside I found with it was the fuel consumption - I calculated around 18.70l / 100km or 5.35km / l just before the car broke down again (I was coming back from a petrol station to fill up the day before work and the gearbox broke down stalling the car 10m-15m from my house. At least I didn't have to get a tow truck )

    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    The AL4 gearbox seems to take up half of this forum. There should be a warning about it. Newer C5s use an excellent Japanese made 6 speed transmission.
    Thank you for your input.
    If I'm not mistaken, the 4-speed AL4 was used in all of the 2.0 petrol C5's and C5 R's [facelift] (2000-2007) and later in 2008 it was replaced with the 6-speed in the X7 models (second generation)? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    I have used and recommend Penrite Multi Vehicle full synthetic, as do many others here.
    Thank you.
    I will buy the Penrite Full Synthetic ATF then

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Also important is the correct procedure to do the oil change CORRECTLY so you do not have to immediately correct what you did.

    The fault 6 Pressure regulation etc is the faulty solenoid problem. So it will need changing sooner or later. Changing the oil may do a lot of good but it will not renew a faulty solenoid. Buy two on ebay for the best price and get ready to do the job. Google it on here too for lots of more information !!
    Will this video be sufficient for my needs?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsJBWWLtP7w - just the oil change and solenoid swap part i should be interested in?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    There is, however, a regular poster who has a great deal of expertise with Diagbox/Lexia, AL4 gearboxes, and Citroens, so should be able to speak your language on all that stuff.
    Thank you.
    I was trying to get the Lexia to run for the past week but I made slow progress. I am currently stuck with running the Lexia program after entering the RPO in Diagbox. I get an error message saying that the application is already open and that I have to close it, even though there is nothing to close. I hope that person will be able to help me with running Lexia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    Better get the solenoids replaced sooner rather than later. When you do that you get a lot of oil out of the gearbox which is good. Any specialist Citroen mechanic should be able to help. It might be a good idea to do a few oil changes first as I will lay money it has never been done.
    I will get the solenoids replaced and the oil ASAP
    How many times should I replace the oil?
    I had no luck with finding Citroen mechanics in my area. I went to 4 different mechanics and unfortunately they either fix Aussie or Jap cars, some agree to work on German cars but no one wants to work on French transmissions. However, I should be fine doing it myself as soon as I get Lexia up and running and as I will get the parts ready
    Last edited by NexxeR121; 7th August 2016 at 12:36 AM.
    - '99 Peugeot 406 Coupe 3.0 Manual - 2nd gearbox broken
    - '02 Volvo s60 2.4T - blown turbo
    - '03 Citroen C5 2.0 Automatic (AL4) - gearbox going into LIMP MODE

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    With the Lexia, did you put the dummy file in the root directory of the c:\ drive?

    My son AXGT has replaced solenoids in an AL4 he had for a while. He did it using youtube videos as a guide and got it right on the second go.

    Cheers Ken
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    Hi
    Hmmm Learning to do everything by watching utube. Good luck. It has taken me 50 years and some Tafe courses but I am a slow learner obviously.

    My comments are that there is no need to pull all that valve body apart as shown. And wiping with unsuitable rag may cause more trouble that you started with. The two valves can be changed without a lot of that dismantling. The setting of the detent spring with the roller should be done by previously marking it and care to get it as it was originally positioned. The factory has a tool for it but not necessary if care is taken. None shown on that clip.

    The vital part of adjusting the oil level was not shown either. They may have done it but it was not shown in detail. Please search on AF for some descriptions, as there are at least several good ones and possibly dozens.

    Just a note on the drain plug and level tube. There are two type that were fitted. The one shown was the later style. They both do the same function. Search !!
    Jaahn

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    Hmmm Learning to do everything by watching utube. Good luck. It has taken me 50 years and some Tafe courses but I am a slow learner obviously.
    With all due respect youtube was not available as learning tool when you (and I) commenced our path of automotive learning.

    However, If it was, I'm sure that we would have availed ourselves of the tool. I certainly do now.

    And yes, 50 years experience and some formal training never goes astray.

    But why be so ungracious the way you framed your post ?

    We all started an beginners wondering which way was anticlockwise on the fixing bolt. And where to start.

    The OP has taken the initiative to tackle the problem himself. And youtube is one of the resources available to him.

    Another resource is experienced mechanics, like yourself with the many years of practical experience.

    AFs reason for being is share that knowledge.

    Definitely not to discourage members who who have come here to learn.

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    OP,

    Remember that the C5s share mechanicals with Peugeot 406s. You may find a Peugeot workshop easier to find that a Cit one.

    Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    With all due respect youtube was not available as learning tool when you (and I) commenced our path of automotive learning.
    However, If it was, I'm sure that we would have availed ourselves of the tool. I certainly do now.
    And yes, 50 years experience and some formal training never goes astray.
    But why be so ungracious the way you framed your post ?
    We all started an beginners wondering which way was anticlockwise on the fixing bolt. And where to start.
    The OP has taken the initiative to tackle the problem himself. And youtube is one of the resources available to him.
    Another resource is experienced mechanics, like yourself with the many years of practical experience.
    AFs reason for being is share that knowledge.
    Definitely not to discourage members who who have come here to learn.
    Hi Rob
    Sorry if the reply seemed ungracious and I am happy to see people who want to " 'ave a go themselves" and are trying to learn.

    We sure were all learners once. I learnt a lot of things the hard way by f*cking things as I went. But I did learn that there are manuals as a resource too. Libraries too. But that is now passe.

    However I have had some serious operations and was glad the surgeon did not have his smart phone tuned to Utube as he went even if his assistant sometimes looked like he could use it My point being that some things are not learnt in two minutes and a short video, even if the current tech obsessed people say it is true. I have been involved in the education industry also and can only say, if it is that easy why have uni degrees or Tafe(sorry they are now almost gone) or school even. Just give them a smart phone at the birthing suite.
    Jaahn
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi Rob
    Sorry if the reply seemed ungracious and I am happy to see people who want to " 'ave a go themselves" and are trying to learn.

    We sure were all learners once. I learnt a lot of things the hard way by f*cking things as I went. But I did learn that there are manuals as a resource too. Libraries too. But that is now passe.

    However I have had some serious operations and was glad the surgeon did not have his smart phone tuned to Utube as he went even if his assistant sometimes looked like he could use it My point being that some things are not learnt in two minutes and a short video, even if the current tech obsessed people say it is true. I have been involved in the education industry also and can only say, if it is that easy why have uni degrees or Tafe(sorry they are now almost gone) or school even. Just give them a smart phone at the birthing suite.
    Jaahn
    I don't disagree with that at all. However the question I'm asking the assembled experts: Is youtube a legitimate place for a beginner to start the learning process.

    And I say yes, it is. Just like anything on the internet you need to decide the merits of what is being presented for yourself. And apply a good lashing of suspicion as to why the person has taken the time to make a video or compose a post.

    The specific sentence in you post that I found out of character was " but I am a slow learner obviously."

    And yes phones in birthing suite happen:

    Where to get AL4 automatic gearbox oil for Citroen C5 2.0 2003 in Australia-laborpost-300x217.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    With the Lexia, did you put the dummy file in the root directory of the c:\ drive?
    Yes. At first I put a blank .txt file with a name 'VERSION' and that did not work, then I renamed the file to 'version' and same error occurred.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    My comments are that there is no need to pull all that valve body apart as shown. And wiping with unsuitable rag may cause more trouble that you started with. The two valves can be changed without a lot of that dismantling. The setting of the detent spring with the roller should be done by previously marking it and care to get it as it was originally positioned.
    Thank you Jaahn

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    7. Keep engine running and remove centre drain plug, some oil will run out, when oil stream breaks into drips, refit centre drain plug.
    What do you mean by removing the centre drain plug (in another topic)l? Are you talking about the plug that is used to fill up the oil from the side or the ACTUAL drain bolt that is used to completely get rid of the oil? I'm sorry for asking a dumb question but wouldn't the whole 4L oil drip that was just poured into the gearbox?
    - '99 Peugeot 406 Coupe 3.0 Manual - 2nd gearbox broken
    - '02 Volvo s60 2.4T - blown turbo
    - '03 Citroen C5 2.0 Automatic (AL4) - gearbox going into LIMP MODE

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    Default Changing/checking the bloody AL4 oil again.:(

    Quote Originally Posted by NexxeR121 View Post
    ------
    What do you mean by removing the centre drain plug (in another topic)l? Are you talking about the plug that is used to fill up the oil from the side or the ACTUAL drain bolt that is used to completely get rid of the oil? I'm sorry for asking a dumb question but wouldn't the whole 4L oil drip that was just poured into the gearbox?
    Hi NexxeR121
    I must have done this topic several dozen times, in detail and other people have covered it well too.
    Why does it become obvious in your question that you do not know yet what the basic process is and details of the drains and plugs on the box is unknown.

    Would it be ungracious of me to say, look it up on Utube, again !! The problem is that if your knowledge is low, then deciding what is good and what is not on Utube is difficult.

    I say search on here for the oil change procedure on the AL4 transmission and then ask again.
    jaahn

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    Last edited by robmac; 20th August 2016 at 07:52 PM.

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    Hi NexxeR121

    jaahn keeps advising you to search, but has not acknowledged that there are tricks to searching Aussie Frogs!

    1. In the top right corner of each page (under the logo, photo and ad boxes) is a grey box with "Search and press enter Google" printed in it. You can type your query in the grey area, and as it says, press enter

    2. A supposedly more powerful search function can be found under 'Nav Panel' (very top bar of every page - constantly visible) - go to bottom right and choose 'Advanced Search'. Try both 'Search single content type ' and 'Search multiple content types' - you get different results . Unfortunately, if you put 'AL4' as your search keyword, you get no results! Trans or transmission does get results.

    Here's an example of what you can find if you search for Keyword 'transmission', and Username 'jaahn'

    AL4 oil level

    Cheers

    Alec

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    On the same subject, a javascript bookmarklet can be got online for most browsers. Just place the code in a toolbar or whatever, and you can Google search any website. Works well with AF.

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    NexxeR121 there is a Pug/ Citroen auto repairer in VIC which I contacted last week as he is official repairer. Call or email [email protected] he has many yeara experience on the AL4. Of course his end result is rebuild the complete box for $4k but was able to supply me transmission pressure readings and a few other details I needed clarifying. Still trying to cure mine!

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    hi, sorry first time on aussie frogs,, but do you know where i can find a diagram for the c5 al4 transmission refill location?

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    Default HELP, c5 al4 transmission refill location?

    hi, sorry first time on aussie frogs,, but do you know where i can find a diagram for the c5 al4 transmission refill location?

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    Huey welcome aboard.
    From the AF website top right has a search function. Search AL4 oil change, plenty to read about and keep you occupied.

    Hopefully your AL4 is running well and you're just changing for maintenance reasons?

    Sent from my SM-G900I using aussiefrogs mobile app

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    Huey, take the time to read this posting from the top. If time is short check out Armidillo's posting #19.

    Good luck, Richard

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