DS lost her bounce
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Thread: DS lost her bounce

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    Member Pallas74's Avatar
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    Default DS lost her bounce

    Hi. While I'm waiting for some expert assistance I thought I'd ask for some opinions. Front of my D is rock solid. New spheres didn't solve it. Rises and lowers as you'd expect. Seems to drop a little at the front when driving then when stopped raises a bit at the front on the next pump cycle. Ride isn't smooth and floaty but clunky and rough over potholes and the like. I can bounce the back of the car easily but cannot move the front. Any thoughts on what I should check. Planning on getting wings and hubs off to check everything but be good to know if any one has been here before. Thanks!

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    Fellow Frogger! badabec's Avatar
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    Are the spheres 'new' new or 'used' new? Have you had them checked by Darrin at Citroen Classics or Plaeides?

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    Quote Originally Posted by badabec View Post
    Are the spheres 'new' new or 'used' new? Have you had them checked by Darrin at Citroen Classics or Plaeides?
    Paul at Pallasauto replaced the old ones from Darrin. Theyre original style and look new so refurb and regassed I guess. Symptoms not changed.
    DS23 Pallas BVM Beige Tholonet, Cactus 110 Puretech Black/Black, C1 Airscape Black

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    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
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    When you first start it up and the front rises, does the front suspension move up and down nicely by hand?

    If so I'd check the 11mm bolts holding the front height corrector in place are tight (take the shield off once the LH wing is off). Then check the clamp that holds the rod on the anti roll bar (i.e. the rod that transmits movement from the anti-roll bar to the height corrector). I've had the clamp move because it wasn't tight enough which puts the front up higher and makes the front hard. The end of the rod at the HC end is brass and it wears, needs grease.

    Cheers

    Marc
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Check the front height....

    I wouldn't trust any sphere. You need to test the gas pressure yourself. And pull the removeable valve and and check how it's shimmed.

    I think you will find the front is sitting to high, and the front of the car does not readily self level though............... this == sludged up front height corrector. Fortunately a simple cost free fix

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    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    At normal ride height there should be about a hand's width of height between the top of the front tyre and the top of the mudguard (wing) arch. At the rear the centre of the wheels should be aboout in line with the bottom of the mudguard (wing).

    Roger

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    At normal ride height there should be about a hand's width of height between the top of the front tyre and the top of the mudguard (wing) arch. At the rear the centre of the wheels should be aboout in line with the bottom of the mudguard (wing).

    Roger
    "Fender", Roger. You forgot "fender".
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    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    Roger is a Gibson Man.
    denxm and Hotrodelectric like this.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I'd punt more on a Clavinet or Rhodes.
    UFO likes this.

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    I do have a Fender guitar, but it is a BG-32 acoustic bass. It might have a short scale but it is the only acoustic bass I have ever played that sounds any good without amplification. I suppose my Yamaha 12 string electric guitar does have a Stratocaster shape.

    But yes, I am more of a Rhodes man.

    I am definitely not a Gibson man. The rhythm guitarist in a band I was once in used to leave his Les Paul at my place on occasions. I could not get excited about it.

    Roger

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    Member Pallas74's Avatar
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    So I should take up guitar and stop worrying 😀

    Thanks for the replies and the links. Just to clarify in case were going off piste. Car rises normally. Responds to manual height adjustment fine. Did once not drop down at front from high but put car up and down and has been fine.

    Front drops down a bit during driving and rises back to normal when stopped at lights etc. Front has no cushiony bounce from start to end of journey. PA checked pressures of old spheres not sure they checked new but will swap these as a test as soon as I can get near another DS that's got the bonnet open! Can also take a look at the front HC. But car not sticking in the up position so presumably return pipe is clear?

    Thanks again all very useful. I'd been thinking mechanical, something stuck not blocked pipes.

    Pete

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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    :-) Maybe that's it I'll get a tube
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    Fellow Frogger! badabec's Avatar
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    Hello, have you tried bending Darrin's ear at Citroen Classics as he supplied the spheres?

    Citroen Classics - DS, 2CV

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    So, you've changed the spheres and there was no change in the behaviour??? It's unlikely both sets of spheres were dead flat or had blocked dampers, so you'd have to be thinking either the ride height is wrong and it's up against the stops or there is some mechanical issue such as a frozen arm bearing or the roll bar has shifted sideways and binds on the chassis.

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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Maybe the expert remembered to paint the spheres but forgot to add the gas? You would be surprised how often stuff like that happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    So, you've changed the spheres and there was no change in the behaviour??? It's unlikely both sets of spheres were dead flat or had blocked dampers, so you'd have to be thinking either the ride height is wrong and it's up against the stops or there is some mechanical issue such as a frozen arm bearing or the roll bar has shifted sideways and binds on the chassis.
    Hi David. Car rises further with manual lever. Presumably that takes it to the stops? If I take wing off and plate over suspension then I guess I can check roll bar and movement etc. Could a frozen arm bearing be tested in some way?
    DS23 Pallas BVM Beige Tholonet, Cactus 110 Puretech Black/Black, C1 Airscape Black

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    Member Pallas74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    Maybe the expert remembered to paint the spheres but forgot to add the gas? You would be surprised how often stuff like that happens.
    Brilliant, nicely painted though. I'll see if I can swap from a mate's D and check them. Do seals need to be renewed swapping back and forth like that?
    DS23 Pallas BVM Beige Tholonet, Cactus 110 Puretech Black/Black, C1 Airscape Black

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    Member Pallas74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    Maybe the expert remembered to paint the spheres but forgot to add the gas? You would be surprised how often stuff like that happens.
    Hi again! Reading the link above to car being stuck on high I saw you replied at the time (2 1/2 years ago!) and mentioned that if on low you can't move the front spheres then the susp tubes might be bound. Can I ask what that means?
    DS23 Pallas BVM Beige Tholonet, Cactus 110 Puretech Black/Black, C1 Airscape Black

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    Member Pallas74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badabec View Post
    Hello, have you tried bending Darrin's ear at Citroen Classics as he supplied the spheres?

    Citroen Classics - DS, 2CV
    These ones came from Paul not Darrin. Darrins were before this. Suspect they should be fine but will check. However...Darrin if you're reading this...;-)
    DS23 Pallas BVM Beige Tholonet, Cactus 110 Puretech Black/Black, C1 Airscape Black

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallas74 View Post
    Hi David. Car rises further with manual lever. Presumably that takes it to the stops? If I take wing off and plate over suspension then I guess I can check roll bar and movement etc. Could a frozen arm bearing be tested in some way?
    Before you get too carried away, open up your manual and follow carefully the procedure for checking/adjusting the actual ride height of the car. It only takes that measurement to be off (to high) by about 1/2" to cause the symptoms you are describing to start to happen. That 'standard' height is adjusted by carefully rotating the HC's control rod (just slightly) that is clamped to the front roll bar in one direction or the other. A D's ride characteristics are quite sensitive to actual car ride height. Has to do with the geometry of the suspension arms.. And as stated in the repair manuals - while a fairly simple adjustment to make - the actual measurement is critical. The factory is looking for is 630mm +/- 3 mm. In 814 Vol 1 the procedure is D 430-0. Keep in mind this measurement is based on the car having 185-15 tires at the factory pressure level. If you have other tires than the that size you will need to compensate for actual diameter of the tires on the car.

    If the ride height proves to be OK - then start looking for more esoteric solutions .

    Steve

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    Tadpole
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    GDay Steve, looks like a typo 235 not 635.

    OPERATION No D. 430-0 : Checking and adjusting the suspension and its controls.
    111 - ADJUSTMENT OF THE HEIGHTS
    In order to carry out this operation, the
    vehicle must be in running order.
    Place the height control lever in "normal" posiposition.
    6. Check the tyre pressures : See Op. D. 000
    7. Place the car on a lift or over a pit. Allow
    the engine to idle. Release the parking
    brake. Do not chock the wheels.
    8. Adiust the front heights
    Slightly loosen the clamp screw (1) securing
    the height corrector control rod. Operate the
    clamp in the required direction to obtain an
    average height of : 235 mm +-3 mm
    This measure is taken from the underside of
    the anti-roll bar to the surface on which the
    wheels are resting. The height of the car is
    increased or decreased a s the clamp i s turned
    turned either towards the front or the rear.
    Tighten the clamp screw (1) (spanner 1677
    (spanner 1677-T).

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    Hi Michael,

    Ya - sometimes the fingers are faster than the ol mind . However I would really suggest that the entire procedure be done from start to finish. IOW do the Pre-Height check out first (proper clearance of the adjusting rod, etc). Its all right there in same section.

    Seve

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    Member Pallas74's Avatar
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    Thank Steve/Michael. Good plan. Yes Darrin showed me this procedure on a tech day at his workshop. If I remember doing the rear involved climbing into the boot. Or was Darrin just having a laugh?? Now I just need to dig a pit.

    Any thoughts as to why front drops a bit while driving and pumps up when stopped (at lights etc) in first cycle. It rises a good few inches and quickly. As though there's not been enough umph to keep her at the right level while driving.

    Also back seems to have 2 positions. Lift her rear end and she drops to one position (up a bit high), push her down and she rises back to mid hub cap. When driving she seems to lift and opposite of front will settle to mid hub cap when stopped for 15 seconds or so

    Almost as if while driving the fluid runs to the back then runs forward when stopped. Like driving a bath. Ok that's exaggerating!

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