ID/DS bolts - what were they like new?
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    Default ID/DS bolts - what were they like new?

    Hi all,

    I have a bucket of bolts, nuts, washers, screws for my IDs. Most with the chevron head. These were - like those on my cars - mostly a very dark blue/black colour. I have had them hydroblasted in preparation for zinc plating and now they are a dullish silver.

    My question to those who knew these cars when they were new or nearly new - what colour were the general fasteners then? Were they essentially silver or essentially dark? Would you open the bonnet and see the heads of the bolts shining back at you, unlike my cars now where they blend into the background becausei they have gone so dark. As you can tell, I don't like overdone "bling" but do value originality.

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    I can get them electroplated black or silver and am leaning strongly to black but thought I should ask the question. This would apply to various small brackets that were not otherwise painted.

    I have also had a (LHS) hydraulic tank cleaned. What would be the wisdom or otherwise of having this electroplated black - obviously inside and out - before painting on the outside? Would that help keep LHS corrosion down? Same question on the filler cap for this.

    Cheers leconte
    Last edited by Leconte; 21st May 2016 at 06:38 PM.
    1962 Heidelberg ID19 "Axel"
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    They were yellow, zinc or cadmium.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leconte View Post
    Hi all,

    I have a bucket of bolts, nuts, washers, screws for my IDs. Most with the chevron head. These were - like those on my cars - mostly a very dark blue/black colour. I have had them hydroblasted in preparation for zinc plating and now they are a dullish silver.

    My question to theose who new these cars when they were new or nearly new - what colour were the general fasteners then? Were they essentially silver or essentially dark? Would you open the bonnet and see the heads of the bolts shining back at you, unlike my cars now where they blend into the background because they have gone so dark. As you can tell, I don't like overdone "bling" but do value originality.


    I can get them electroplated black or silver and am leaning strongly to black but thought I should ask the question. This would apply to various small brackets that were not otherwise painted.

    I have also had a (LHS) hydraulic tank cleaned. What would be the wisdom or otherwise of having this electroplated black - obviously inside and out - before painting on the outside? Would that help keep LHS corrosion down? Same question on the filler cap for this.

    Cheers leconte
    Have a look here '62 DS19 - Othello likes to get details correct, there appears to be a combination of silver (zinc/nickel) and black, you may be able to identify what is what? Awkward site using 'Flash' but you can click on pics showing the plated bolts, nuts, screws etc.

    DS 19 1962 NOIRE 02. | Citrothello

    There are several pics for example. . .



    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ID/DS bolts - what were they like new?-ds-id-nuts-bolts.jpg  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leconte View Post
    Hi all,

    I have a bucket of bolts, nuts, washers, screws for my IDs. Most with the chevron head. These were - like those on my cars - mostly a very dark blue/black colour. I have had them hydroblasted in preparation for zinc plating and now they are a dullish silver.

    My question to theose who new these cars when they were new or nearly new - what colour were the general fasteners then? Were they essentially silver or essentially dark? Would you open the bonnet and see the heads of the bolts shining back at you, unlike my cars now where they blend into the background because they have gone so dark. As you can tell, I don't like overdone "bling" but do value originality.


    I can get them electroplated black or silver and am leaning strongly to black but thought I should ask the question. This would apply to various small brackets that were not otherwise painted.

    I have also had a (LHS) hydraulic tank cleaned. What would be the wisdom or otherwise of having this electroplated black - obviously inside and out - before painting on the outside? Would that help keep LHS corrosion down? Same question on the filler cap for this.

    Cheers leconte
    As John said, the hardware will be a yellow coating, probably cad. As the corrosion inside the reservoirs is a result of condensation and water accumulation, cad plating would be a way to go here, too. If you're going to paint or powdercoat the can in black, maybe a clear cad for the tank and cap. Zinc would produce a brighter, more metallized finish. Both produce good resistance to corrosion. I don't think there's anything about plain ol' DOT3 that can easily strip a zinc or cad finish. Ask your finisher to be sure.
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Dang, Chris. Beat hell outta me on that one.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Dang, Chris. Beat hell outta me on that one.
    We should point out leconte is dealing with early LHS cars, of course the later LHM cars used the gold passivated nuts bolts and screws as John has alluded.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    FWIW, I was under the impression the dark ones were high tensile bolts.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    I am reliably (I think) informed that the chevron head is actually the trademark of the bolt manufacturer and is a Christmas tree, rather than a Citroen chevron.

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    wow. Muthbuster!

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    Quote Originally Posted by badabec View Post
    I am reliably (I think) informed that the chevron head is actually the trademark of the bolt manufacturer and is a Christmas tree, rather than a Citroen chevron.

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    Louis Vuitton is my choice. Question: which dawn? Yours, or mine?
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    Lenconte,
    who did you get the hydroblasting done by?

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    Hi all

    Thanks all for your information. The Citrothello link is very helpful thanks Chris, great photos. I think I will have most of the fasteners done black except for a few, some of which look like ring-ins from other cars or later models that I will do silver.

    For the LHS tank I will probably have it electroplated silver so there is still some reflection inside when peering in, then to paint it, it looks like I should etch-prime and paint it with an expoxy enamel, maybe even dulux metalshield. I want it plated to protect the inside of the tank from corrosion.

    Re the bolt heads, I'd be surprised about the chevrons not being specific Citroen ones as they are identical to the paint marks appearing on various pieces and paper labels, even on upholstery (under the seats). But it would be fascinating if it were proved otherwise.

    Michael - The hydroblasting I have had done by John at Ferntree Gully Hydroblasting. I got his name by googling various blogs for Melbourne Hydroblasting and found some positive reports. He does a lot of work for the motorcycle community so is used to fiddly bits. He did my clockwork brake units and parts early this year, I was very happy with that so went back last week with a rocker cover, bibax joint units, the LHS drum and two icecream containers of fasteners. Again happy with the result. He works out of his shed at home.

    Regards
    leconte
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leconte View Post

    Re the bolt heads, I'd be surprised about the chevrons not being specific Citroen ones as they are identical to the paint marks appearing on various pieces and paper labels, even on upholstery (under the seats). But it would be fascinating if it were proved otherwise.

    Regards
    leconte
    Urmmm, yes, must say I'm more than a little skeptical! If they are not unique to Citroen where else were they used - Christmas tree decorations

    Peter, you need to reveal your 'reliable source' and more information

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Gosh, there's a variety of opinion for you.

    I can confirm that on the early cars most fasteners were blue/black, a natural finish formed after heat treatment.
    To me the cutoff was the change of pitch of the 5mm threads from 0.75 to 0.8; did that coincide with the change of engine from 3 tpo 5 bearings?
    They are pretty well all "high tensile" to varying degrees depending on the function. I don't think I ever saw a mild steel fastener in an early D*.
    *Except for a couple of the Whitworth and BSF bolts used by the Slough suppliers...... one that comes to mind is the pair of 3/8" BSF bolts used to connect the Lucas generator to its cast iron mounting bracket.

    I believe the head marking is chevrons.

    Some bolts were I believe zinc plated, and definitely NOT yellow/gold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Gosh, there's a variety of opinion for you.

    I can confirm that on the early cars most fasteners were blue/black, a natural finish formed after heat treatment.
    To me the cutoff was the change of pitch of the 5mm threads from 0.75 to 0.8; did that coincide with the change of engine from 3 tpo 5 bearings?
    They are pretty well all "high tensile" to varying degrees depending on the function. I don't think I ever saw a mild steel fastener in an early D*.
    *Except for a couple of the Whitworth and BSF bolts used by the Slough suppliers...... one that comes to mind is the pair of 3/8" BSF bolts used to connect the Lucas generator to its cast iron mounting bracket.

    I believe the head marking is chevrons.

    Some bolts were I believe zinc plated, and definitely NOT yellow/gold.
    Thanks Bob, I hoped you would chime in on this one. I really like the blue-black colour but will have to go solid black as that is the only option the electroplaters offer. The quality of these fasteners is remarkable but they don't look right as the silver colour they have come up after the hydroblasting. Interesting how that process (which is just water and vibration) took off the bluing.

    Regards leconte
    1962 Heidelberg ID19 "Axel"
    1965 Heidelberg ID19
    half owner 1974 GS 1220 Convertisseur Break

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    if you paint the LHS tank you'll be wanting to see if the paint copes with spills as any old paint might be compromised by the hydraulic fluid, I painted mine green with any old paint and it didn't like LHM one little bit, solved with coat of POR clear which is chemical resistant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leconte View Post
    Hi all,

    I have a bucket of bolts, nuts, washers, screws for my IDs. Most with the chevron head. These were - like those on my cars - mostly a very dark blue/black colour. I have had them hydroblasted in preparation for zinc plating and now they are a dullish silver.

    My question to those who knew these cars when they were new or nearly new - what colour were the general fasteners then? Were they essentially silver or essentially dark? Would you open the bonnet and see the heads of the bolts shining back at you, unlike my cars now where they blend into the background becausei they have gone so dark. As you can tell, I don't like overdone "bling" but do value originality.


    I can get them electroplated black or silver and am leaning strongly to black but thought I should ask the question. This would apply to various small brackets that were not otherwise painted.

    I have also had a (LHS) hydraulic tank cleaned. What would be the wisdom or otherwise of having this electroplated black - obviously inside and out - before painting on the outside? Would that help keep LHS corrosion down? Same question on the filler cap for this.

    Cheers leconte
    The early cars (1911c) were Black. The later cars were either zinc or yellow platinised finish!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    if you paint the LHS tank you'll be wanting to see if the paint copes with spills as any old paint might be compromised by the hydraulic fluid, I painted mine green with any old paint and it didn't like LHM one little bit, solved with coat of POR clear which is chemical resistant.
    Yes you are right. There is a spray paint "VHTPaint Caliper" that is specifically for brake parts and advertises brake fluid resistence. Comes in gloss back as needed for the tank so I will check that out. The same company has a range of engine paint spray cans including one names Racing Green that looks a fair match for the Citroen green engine paint. Has anyone tried this stuff around or on a Citroen?

    I have got the (removable) oil filler tube off the rocker cover to paint so I could try out the green. The hydroblasting was particularly impressive on this, the integral metal sieve in the tube is gleaming and new looking, I suppose it has been protected by 54 years of oil and oil vapour. It was disgusting going to the hydroblaster.

    Regards mark
    1962 Heidelberg ID19 "Axel"
    1965 Heidelberg ID19
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    Bad traffic? I know bin day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leconte View Post
    Yes you are right. There is a spray paint "VHTPaint Caliper" that is specifically for brake parts and advertises brake fluid resistence. Comes in gloss back as needed for the tank so I will check that out. The same company has a range of engine paint spray cans including one names Racing Green that looks a fair match for the Citroen green engine paint. Has anyone tried this stuff around or on a Citroen?

    Regards mark
    Yes, I think so. See post no. 18 of the "DS19 Engine Reconditioning" thread on this site. The thread was started by Roger (aka 'LHS2.1'). The VHT colour you're talking about doesn't look quite right to me but it could be (as the author says) because of the light when he took his photos, or could simply be because my computer is not reproducing the colour correctly....

    Off topic a little bit, but I would dearly love to know the right colour for engine blocks. it seems to be a kind of olive green - almost a military green? I have heard that AC501 is the right colour, but what's that as a modern colour? Engine blocks of Traction Avants are painted the same colour. The Traction mob seem to use RAL 6020 but that could simply be received wisdom, rather than a fact as, again, pictures Ive seen don't look quite right. Can anyone pin this down???
    Last edited by Budge; 23rd May 2016 at 12:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Some bolts were I believe zinc plated, and definitely NOT yellow/gold.
    Indeed. I was, in fact, quite incorrect. I was thinking of the later cars. Glad Bob set the record straight
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    if you paint the LHS tank you'll be wanting to see if the paint copes with spills as any old paint might be compromised by the hydraulic fluid, I painted mine green with any old paint and it didn't like LHM one little bit, solved with coat of POR clear which is chemical resistant.
    POR15 is good stuff, but it comes with an important caveat: your finish must be complete. That is, no thin spots, holes or spaces where you didn't cover the part. POR15 is resistant, but any corrosive or reactive chemical, like brake fluid that finds a pathway under the POR will strip it away as though there were no coating. POR15 depends on encapsulation, not binding to the metal.
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    Thanks everyone for helping. I have a follow up question.

    Went to the electroplater today and getting almost all nuts, bolts, washers, screws plated black. A small number will be silver - round head screwdriver slot ones, trim screws mainly. Will be done next week, looking forward to getting them back.

    I wanted to get the LHS drum plated silver but he advised it wouldn't be effective on the inside, bit vague as to why but he said it just wouldn't be a good result. He suggested using a fuel tank sealer inside like POR15 tank sealant. Now all those products are designed for petrol not brake fluid as the contents, has anyone had any experiences at all with tank sealant products and brake fluid?

    Also re the VHT engine paints. Local shops don't have much stock but do carry a lot of dupli-color spray cans including their engine paint, caliper paint etc. VHT and Dupli-color are produced by the same paint company. Has anyone got anything to offer about dupli-color high temperarure engine paints? Good or bad reports.

    Regards leconte
    1962 Heidelberg ID19 "Axel"
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    Have used VHT high temperature paint on a recent motorbike resto and done the exhaust header in matt black. After many months of riding it is still in good condition, hasn't peeled or cracked or discoloured... So I guess that is a good sign!? Baked it in the oven as directed after spraying.

    whether it will withstand continuous immersion in LHM... Unsure.

    Sven

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    Leconte, I wouldn't coat the inside of tank with tank sealant in a pink fit!

    It'll clog the pipes up and f it big time.

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