Another green leak
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Thread: Another green leak

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Default Another green leak

    It looks like my old '68 ID19 enjoys leaking.
    And mostly from the same spot, rear left wheel.
    Fixed the tube, fixed the boot, now it leaks again.
    I decided it now comes from behind this green thingy:



    Thing is, I can't seem to get the thingy off to look at what's behind it.
    So I ask around, get some interesting discussions on whether it's better to fix it or replace it with a newer version, and all sorts, until someone says, to get it off remove the "lateral invisible screw buried in the crud".

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    Only screw I could find, looks like this:



    which I (obviously) removed, but the green thingy shows no sign of wanting to come off.
    Any suggestions on where to go from here?

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    That's the swivel union to the rear brakes. They are notorious leakers. I think they get replaced by a flexible brake hose. It has been a long while since I delved into that area on one of those cars! Page 276 of the parts manual drawing 604-80. Shows the flexible brake line.
    Cheers Gerry

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    The bolt you removed is the swivel pinch bolt, which makes sure the swivel moves with the suspension arm rather than working the brake pipe. If you disconnect the piping and release the lever arm from the bracket attached to the frame you should be able to tap/pry it out of the suspension arm.

    When you convert to the flexible hose, be sure to get both angle brackets (the one on the suspension arm and the one attached to the frame). The conversion is easiest if you can find a later model wreck. That way you can also snag the brake piping and Tee.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

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    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    It is also possible to rebuild the swivel, although it involves drilling out the rivet at the end, replacing the O-ring and then swaging the device back together.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  5. #5
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    Der Franzose in Germany sells a conversion kit (part numbers 34112 and 34113) which includes the mounting bracket(s?) and 'T' pipe, but you're looking at 100 Euros for each side! I'm sure someone on here will be able to help you solve your problem for far less than that.

    I've still got a pair of those swivel unions on my 68. I've got a pair of NOS for when it's time to replace them, but i might give John's suggestion of rebuilding them a go first.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    To rebuild, you need to source a pair of AN size -011 (5/16 x 1/16) O-rings (two per side). There are various methods of removing the aluminum cover, including gently prying up and then crushing the riveted end (e.g in a 1/4 inch lathe collet) or filing it flush. The former allows you to re-peen the rivet, the latter method requires you to reduce the thickness of the steel washer to yield enough material to peen. Bend the two lugs away from the pipe and tap the rivet to remove the cover. Clean, polish and reassemble.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    If you disconnect the piping and release the lever arm from the bracket attached to the frame you should be able to tap/pry it out of the suspension arm.
    I did remove the bracket for the lever arm.
    Disconnecting the piping... at the other end, it seems to be welded to a three-way connection.
    Which, if I disconnect the other two tubes (which looks possible) won't go through the hole the tube goes through.
    So I'm still confused as to how to get the thing out of there to have a look a it and try to understand what the solution could be.

    I mean, whether to try and rebuild it or spend a bucket on the kit...
    I've found the kit on Franzose, BTW, thanks.
    (Welcome to Franzose.de - your online shop for frensh car parts - Citroen DS, 11CV...:·)

    This seems to be the most confusing feature I've found so far on that car

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Remove the grime from the three way connection. There will be two 9mm tube nuts to unscrew. Use a flare wrench to avoid rounding them off, since it sounds like it has been a while since that union was disconnected. The union comes off with the swivel.

    Right side is easier - only one 9mm tube nut to unscrew
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Ah. So it's not welded. Good
    I'll have a better look at that tomorrow. Midnight here now.
    Cheers.

  10. #10
    UFO
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    Again we see the world wide power of Aussiefrogs. A guy in Spain with a problem being helped via an Australian website by an American, and Aussie and a Pom!
    denxm, mberry, Lasya and 2 others like this.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    A Spaniard, an Englishman and an American walk into an Aussie pub...
    addo, CXVingtCinq and UFO like this.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Now I want to know what each one ordered!
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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Now I want to know what each one ordered!
    Flexible brake lines. That's what.
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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Er.
    That T is welded. Right, I just misread, it comes off with the swivel.

    Another green leak-t.jpgAnother green leak-stkz.jpg

    Anyway, with some wrench contortionism and abundant swearing, I managed to get the thingy as loose as it (conceivably) can be. See second pic.
    It still refuses to budge.
    As I am loath to use lethal force... any hints on how to try and get it out without doing too much damage?
    I really feel like a deer with no eyes, no legs, and... you know
    Last edited by Don B. Cilly; 19th May 2016 at 01:30 AM.
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  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    If the pinch bolt is out (as shown in your first post) you should be able to free the swivel from the suspension arm. You may have to use a drift and work from the inside, tapping on the end of the post that goes through the suspension arm (which was formerly pinched on the side by the pinch bolt).
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Again we see the world wide power of Aussiefrogs. A guy in Spain with a problem being helped via an Australian website by an American, and Aussie and a Pom!

    Being an American, I didn't know what a Pom was so I looked it up in the Australian Slang dictionary on koalanet.com. There is a rather humorous exchange between the purveyors of that site and your Human Rights & Equal Opportunity Commission which had received a complaint from an organisation calling itself British People Against Racial Discrimination (BPARD) complaining that Pom was derogatory. As a result of the complaint, Koalanet did not remove "Pom" from the dictionary (thankfully, otherwise I still would not know). The did, however, add "sheepshagger" in order to be fair.

    FWIW, in America we call a "pommy shower" a "French bath" (same idea). Simply amazing what you learn on Aussifrogs.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    Sometimes in the vernacular a person with United States of Amrika is referred to as a Septic Tank or sepo which is a modified strayan version of Yank. But you knew that huh? Not so much a derogatory adjective but lazy slang. Ok all these terms potentially have an element of derision.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Seppo is in the dictionary, but without any explanation as to its origin. Thanks for elaborating on the etymology.
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  19. #19
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    They're all optionally perjorative, like wog and bastard. A "miserable Pom" is clearly an insult but "that Seppo bastard" is likely referring to someone who got on up on you. If Don successfully resolves the leak with a little hard graft and ingenuity, he's a "clever wog".

    One of the best compliments I've seen for Aussie speak was a Russian comment on YouTube, it was something to the effect of "You guys swear more than Russians!"...
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  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    You may have to use a drift and work from the inside,
    A drift is... what? A punch?
    I seem to have a whole car on the other side of that arm, and suspiciously close to it, but... OK, I'll give it a try.

    BTW, I'm an Italian guy living in Spain
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  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
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    Yes, drift = straight punch probably about 5mm diameter should work if I recall correctly
    Cheers,
    John T.

    54 11BL; 61DS19 LHM (son's); 71DS21 BVH; 73SM 3.0; 73SM 2.7EFI; 73SM 3.0 (other son's); 74 Maserati Merak

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    OK, it's off.
    I didn't use a punch, as I would have had to take the whole arm off to do that.
    Unfastening the tube from the arm itself and soaking in penetrating oil got it loose enough.
    Thanks everyone for the help.

    So I had a good look at it.
    The decision to install the flexible hose was a quick one, you can guess.
    Thanks in particular to Budge for providing the ref. numbers for the parts, saved me a lot of time and worries.

    Another green leak-uff.jpg

    [EDIT] BTW, the right-hand side one is €20 cheaper, so I got them for less than €200 including shipping.
    Last edited by Don B. Cilly; 19th May 2016 at 08:05 PM.

  23. #23
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post
    The decision to install the flexible hose was a quick one, you can guess.
    Thanks in particular to Budge for providing the ref. numbers for the parts, saved me a lot of time and worries.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You know Marco (Citroenservices) has them listed on his site?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post
    BTW, I'm an Italian guy living in Spain
    Australian slang for Italian immigrants used to be 'ding'. haven't heard it used in years, except by way of reminiscing! We used it in school in an affectionate way for our Italian mates.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    You know Marco (Citroenservices) has them listed on his site?
    Too late

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