XM Series 2 immobilizer failure? Won't go.
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  1. #1
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    Default XM Series 2 immobilizer failure? Won't go.

    My dad's car, (series 2 XM with es9J4 motor) has been going fairly reliably for a few weeks now... Tonight he drove down to the local fish and chip shop and when he went to drive home it wouldn't start.
    It's one of those ones with the keypad immobilizer, and when he enters the code it just beeps and flashes red as though the wrong code has been entered. We've had a few cars with this immobilizer system and haven't had any issues with them before, I'd never heard of one doing this before. Where do I start to look? Is it possible that the ecu has forgotten the code and needs to be reprogrammed or repaired? I have a spare car and my thought is that I'll put the ecu out of that in his one and see if it goes with that.
    Any thoughts appreciated.

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  2. #2
    JBN
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    It seems the immobilizers is working OK. Get it disconnected. The CITROEN sign deters thieves. I don't even lock my Xantia because the central locking doesn't work. As long as the car starts and the wipers work, don't push Citroen electrics to do much more. They are not made in Japan, you know.

    John

  3. #3
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Hi Andrew, is it possible he was trying to enter the wrong code?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Hi Andrew, is it possible he was trying to enter the wrong code?
    I've asked him that a couple of times! He assures me that it was correct. He recited it back to me over the phone... It's easy to remember "1111" too!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    It seems the immobilizers is working OK. Get it disconnected. The CITROEN sign deters thieves. I don't even lock my Xantia because the central locking doesn't work. As long as the car starts and the wipers work, don't push Citroen electrics to do much more. They are not made in Japan, you know.

    John
    After its stopped working it's probably too late to disconnect it though... As far as I'm aware you need it to be running to disconnect it.

  6. #6
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    Hi Angru - no idea what has gone wrong. I'm surprised that the SII XM (with ES9J4 motor) still has the keypad! Our 406 with an ES9J4S has an immobiliser chip instead of keypad, as does our Series II Xantia.

    It might be worth disconnecting the battery for an hour to force the ECU to reset (as you'd know, doing that shouldn't affect the security code. Actually it might be worth checking the battery voltage - if a cell has unexpectedly shorted, the ECU might not be happy with what might now be a 10-volt battery!

    I agree that your idea of swapping ECU should work. I've done this with two Xantias of the same model, and it worked fine. Best of all the security code moved with the ECU!

    Edit - also agree that code has to be entered correctly (and probably as you say engine should be running) before trying to disconnect the pad. I haven't done that, but have pulled the fuse (on the Xantia) that supplies power to the security pad after entering the code, and my memory is that the car could then be stopped and restarted without needing to re-enter the code. Only problem was some other important function shared the same fuse!

    Cheers

    Alec
    Last edited by Armidillo; 15th May 2016 at 12:07 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    Hi Angru - no idea what has gone wrong. I'm surprised that what I assume is a late XM (with ES9J4 motor) still has the keypad! Our 406 with an ES9J4S has an immobiliser chip instead of keypad, as does our Series II Xantia.

    It might be worth disconnecting the battery for an hour to force the ECU to reset (as you'd know, doing that shouldn't affect the security code. Actually it might be worth checking the battery voltage - if a cell has unexpectedly shorted, the ECU might not be happy with what might now be a 10-volt battery!

    I agree that your idea of swapping ECU should work. I've done this with two Xantias of the same model, and it worked fine. Best of all the security code moved with the ECU!

    Other

    Cheers

    Alec
    Thanks for he reply! I'm pretty sure we never got 406's with keypads in Aus, I think all had transponder key immobilizes. I have another XM that's a '99 model and still has keypad too, I'd assumed that all s2 XM's had them whereas Xantia did away with them in favour of transponder chip when they introduced the series 2.
    Thanks for the suggestion of disconnecting the battery, my dad will try that.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! denxm's Avatar
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    A few years back my xm s1 sometimes would flash red or red and green when entering numbers but would always start if i turned ignition on/off a few times.
    decided to pull keypad out,dismantled it,easy, but note how it comes apart,how pad contacts to board,bit fiddly to get right when putting together,all was cleaned with electronic spray.
    Pulled ecu out,never been out,got electronic mate to check for dry joints,he soldered some and all the ic's and said some capacitors
    were under spec, replaced three,re-assembled,may of been my imagination but the car seemed to run smoother and more pick up.
    Now no keypad problems,so swapping a ecu may help your old man's car.

  9. #9
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    And looking at it from my perspective, is the battery OK? The XM has an early version of CANBUS wiring, so a low battery causes some bizarre problems.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Near the front sphere on the drivers side there is a reset button, it's about 1 inch diameter, press it. On some XMs it's a black button, on the late V6 it's usually red, so you can't really miss it. As HRE says it's important to make sure the battery is good and well charged. It should start now.

    cheers

    Marc
    Cheers, Marc.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    And looking at it from my perspective, is the battery OK? The XM has an early version of CANBUS wiring, so a low battery causes some bizarre problems.
    Battery is only a month old and very good quality, alternator is good too as I rebuilt it last year. He says its spinning over at full speed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc61 View Post
    Near the front sphere on the drivers side there is a reset button, it's about 1 inch diameter, press it. On some XMs it's a black button, on the late V6 it's usually red, so you can't really miss it. As HRE says it's important to make sure the battery is good and well charged. It should start now.

    cheers

    Marc
    That's the inertia switch that switches the fuel pump off in case of accident? I'll give it a go. Thanks.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by denxm View Post
    A few years back my xm s1 sometimes would flash red or red and green when entering numbers but would always start if i turned ignition on/off a few times.
    decided to pull keypad out,dismantled it,easy, but note how it comes apart,how pad contacts to board,bit fiddly to get right when putting together,all was cleaned with electronic spray.
    Pulled ecu out,never been out,got electronic mate to check for dry joints,he soldered some and all the ic's and said some capacitors
    were under spec, replaced three,re-assembled,may of been my imagination but the car seemed to run smoother and more pick up.
    Now no keypad problems,so swapping a ecu may help your old man's car.
    Thanks for that. I've had the keypad buttons that get bad at making contact and have pulled them apart and cleaned them before, this is definitely recognizing when he pushes a button and then not registering as being correct code. I figure it really must be in the ecu and swapping with other one with known code will at least get it going again. then to work out what to do with his ecu if it's the issue.

  14. #14
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    The red-and-green fault Dennis is describing usually precedes an ignition module breakdown on PRV cars.

    I can tell you that locking the doors, then unlocking and opening the driver's door will reset the immobiliser to "ready for code entry". This doesn't change the code as set. In case the driver's door switch is faulty, you could also open the front passenger door.

    Having the ECU permanently unlocked by a specialist would be one way around the problem.

    In operation, "armed" is red blinking light. When you turn the key to marche, the light goes solid red and the keypad chirps once. As soon as the code is received (note each "pip" per number pushed) and matched, the red light goes out and the solid green LED lights. This signals it's ready for starting.
    Last edited by addo; 15th May 2016 at 10:03 AM.

  15. #15
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    A couple of peripheral obsercations:

    The intertia switch near the front right sphere is supposed to reset itself after a few minutes.

    Early XMs had a feature where you could reset the code to a special number (0000, I think, without looking it up) which allowed the car to be started without entering a code. Late XMs do not have this feature.

    Sorry I cannot be any more helpful.

    Roger

  16. #16
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    That's a service code, it times out.

  17. #17
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    And AFAIK you need to get the current code correct before you can either change it or enter a service code...

  18. #18
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Yes.

    Another reason for the immobiliser not to allow starting, is no power to the ECU itself.

  19. #19
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    I am still waiting for the service code on the Seidler XM to time out. It has been several years now. So I suggest it does not time out.

    Roger

  20. #20
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    It may have been set also to the user code as being four zeros, or never changed from the factory.

  21. #21
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    Harry would use his birthyear as the code!

  22. #22
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    I changed it.

    What is the difference between the service code and setting the user code as four zeros? I thought they were the same thing?

    Roger

  23. #23
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    It's going again... But am no closer to knowing why it didn't... I unlocked the car, gave it a try without changing anything, and it worked with no issues. Will look at disconnecting it, until then there's a spare ecu, along with spare double relay, and a few other commonly known to fail electrical spares in the boot.
    Thanks to everybody who replied and if and when I get to the bottom of it I'll post it here.

  24. #24
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    I would congratulate you if either of us knew what happened!

    Having driven an XM as an everyday car for nearly 10 years and 150,000 km now, and having not paid a bean to anyone to lay a spanner or a multimeter on either of them, I cannot say I am any closer to understanding how their electrics work than when I started. My usual approach is to leave well enough alone.

    Roger

  25. #25
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    Don't think you can disable the keypad on the ES9 XM as you can the earlier cars. It's something to do with the ECU still looking for it in a different way to the earlier cars. That's probably why you will not find the keypad has been disconnected. I would think it's most likely a poor connection, possibly a dry joint somewhere if it refused to work when warm, but is OK again after it has cooled down. Has it had anything split onto it???

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