AM6 Gearbox Oil Change
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Thread: AM6 Gearbox Oil Change

  1. #1
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    Default AM6 Gearbox Oil Change

    I recently changed the fluid in our C5 gearbox, an Aisin-Warner AM6, by following a combination of the Citroen service instructions and the following document that I roughly translated into English.

    I'm hoping this link to a .pdf can be accessed and I would appreciate feedback on that, also feedback on the procedure described if anyone with auto gearbox experience cares to share their commentary:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjzkad6g7i...0copy.pdf?dl=0

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    Last edited by electroboy; 14th May 2016 at 04:44 PM.
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    I get a dropbox error 500. You may be able to attach this to your post. How big is the pdf file.

    Regards,

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    I get a dropbox error 500. You may be able to attach this to your post. How big is the pdf file.

    Regards,

    Ken
    Thanks Ken, the file is around 850kB - I've tried attaching it to the post but it rejects it.
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

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    The file is gettable with a downloader, with no worrying about certificates, eg:

    wget --no-check-certificate https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjzkad6g7i...0copy.pdf?dl=0

    Unfortunately the file will be named with ?dl=0 appended. OK on Linux such as the server, but not OK on some other home machines.

    It's a translation of the file I translated some time ago, but this time with the piccies attached!

    PS drop the offending suffix from the command and the downloader will get a pdf file.
    Last edited by seasink; 14th May 2016 at 08:25 PM.

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    Thanks for the file.

    I had no problem accessing and downloading the file. I am working on a computer already logged into dropbox though.

    Regards,
    Anthony
    Anthony O'Brien
    2008 C5
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    The file is gettable with a downloader, with no worrying about certificates, eg:

    wget --no-check-certificate https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjzkad6g7i...0copy.pdf?dl=0

    Unfortunately the file will be named with ?dl=0 appended. OK on Linux such as the server, but not OK on some other home machines.

    It's a translation of the file I translated some time ago, but this time with the piccies attached!

    PS drop the offending suffix from the command and the downloader will get a pdf file.

    Thanks seasink, do you mean if I drop the suffix on the hyperlink in my original post that will make it easier for people to download the .pdf?
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    I got it second time when I deleted the dl=0 section.

    This only changes 2 and a bit litres of about 9 that the gearbox contains. When I have done mine, I do two oil changes so there is about 4 litres of new oil in there.

    There will always be some oil in the drain tube initially as it will have slopped in there during the last 60kkm. Hmmm must plug in the diagbox and see what the oil level actually is. I have had no complaints from the gearbox ECU which I thought would alarm if level was wrong to an excessive degree.

    Cheers, Ken

    Ken

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    I noticed a certificate problem, which is why I suggested downloading without a check. That works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    I got it second time when I deleted the dl=0 section.

    This only changes 2 and a bit litres of about 9 that the gearbox contains. When I have done mine, I do two oil changes so there is about 4 litres of new oil in there.

    There will always be some oil in the drain tube initially as it will have slopped in there during the last 60kkm. Hmmm must plug in the diagbox and see what the oil level actually is. I have had no complaints from the gearbox ECU which I thought would alarm if level was wrong to an excessive degree.

    Cheers, Ken

    Ken
    Thanks Ken, yes I did mine twice as well, 3 litres each time (there is actually a total volume of 8 litres in this model according to the manufacturer Aisin Warner). Both times I added 3.5 litres with most of the extra 0.5 litres each time draining from the level plug after warm up and changing through the gears at idle with foot on the brake.

    Shifting didn't improve that much after that so today I tipped in some additive and the shifting is now smooth, except there is still a delay entering reverse and bit of the thump. I'm assuming wear and tear in one part of the valve body is the cause of the dodgy reverse gear shifting, however I have not reset the neutral position sensor using Lexia as yet and also need to reset the autoadaptives in the morning if I can figure out where to find that in the Lexia diag tool thing. Any clues on that anybody?
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

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    Out of interest, how many km has the transmission done? I've just been thinking of changing the fluid on my wife's car which I believe has the same (or very similar) trans (a Mondeo).


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    For the C5 AM6 there was a 60,000 km recommendation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWTF-80_SC has a list of cars that use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Out of interest, how many km has the transmission done? I've just been thinking of changing the fluid on my wife's car which I believe has the same (or very similar) trans (a Mondeo).
    Our car has done 120k, and I only learned of the need to service this 'sealed for life' (total bullshit) transmission's need for oil changes about 20k ago. Symptoms appeared about 2k ago. These gearboxes were well regarded but just like so many other 'sealed for life' types develop wear and tear in the valve body, various bores wear out due to the metal particles in the oil over time etc. I'm constantly amazed looking up faults with these gearboxes in other makes of car. The faults all appear the same and emerge between 60k and 120k if oil has not been changed frequently. Volvo forums insist the issue is caused by not using volvo oil, peugeot owners attribute the same faults to not using peugeot oil, citroen the same, what a load of crap. Toyota own the bloody company that makes the gearbox and they use toyota oil. I couldn't believe it when one 'armchair expert' warned me to stay away from Toyota ATF because I absolutely have to use the Citroen oil. Others say it absolutely has to be a specific Esso oil, or Mobil oil. Wank on. Surprise surprise the main thing is not the brand of oil, it simply needs to be the correct grade and changed regularly. Some say as frequently as every 20k or 30k. Given mine is clunking on the reverse shift I suspect one of the bores is too worn and it's time to put a kit through the valve body or just whack in a 'remanufactured' one. Cheaper than a whole new box!
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    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

  13. #13
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    You can buy brand new valve bodies ex UK, they are modestly competitive.

    Peugeot 407 Automatic BRAND NEW AF40-TF80SC Gearbox Valve Body | eBay

    I paid about £60 freight on the last one, it arrived in less than a week.
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  14. #14
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    Like I said above Citroen didn't say sealed for life in the service book.

    Toyota has a 30% shareholding in Aisin Seiki, but don't actually make oil. The maker's spec is JWS 3308 and it's made by such as Esso, if you can find it retail. Many car models need this ATF.

    The dealers sell it with a very large markup, and Toyota Type IV is the Toyota name for the same stuff. Toyota dealers in Australia are usually cheaper than Peugeot/Citroen dealers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Like I said above Citroen didn't say sealed for life in the service book.

    Toyota has a 30% shareholding in Aisin Seiki, but don't actually make oil. The maker's spec is JWS 3308 and it's made by such as Esso, if you can find it retail. Many car models need this ATF.

    The dealers sell it with a very large markup, and Toyota Type IV is the Toyota name for the same stuff. Toyota dealers in Australia are usually cheaper than Peugeot/Citroen dealers.
    Hey there seasink (my autocorrect keeps trying to call you seasick!) - can you point me to which Citroen service book provides the AM6 oil change intervals? I'm concerned there might be other things I'm missing that don't appear in Lexia/Diagbox for my C5. The only references I've found in Citroen documentation is the actual procedure for changing the oil but I've never been able to find any reference to recommended intervals, only for engine oil, brake fluids etc. but not transmission fluid. I'd be much obliged!

    Addo, thanks for the link to new OEM valve body, did you install one? If so, what came with the valve body - any other materials/gaskets?

    P.S. Thanks seasink for pointing out the exact percentage of Aisin Seiki that Toyota own. Toyota are listed as the parent company by virtue of this 30% controlling interest, i.e. they pretty much 'own' it for all intents and purposes. It's interesting how much lower a 'controlling interest' can go in some corporations, but that's not exactly relevant to the topic at hand either.
    Ceenine likes this.
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

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    Tell the auto-correct to speak in schoolboy French.


    Page from the previous Maintenance and Warranty Guide, for C5 (Sime Darby has a new one) and other Cits:
    AM6 Gearbox Oil Change-service.jpg
    The same manual gives the fluid part number, so you get the right stuff - AM6: 9980.D4


    PS Sime Darby's current manual is silent on this transmission.
    Last edited by seasink; 15th May 2016 at 05:53 PM. Reason: ps
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    Hmm. Ours has done 97,000 mainly dealer serviced km and I'm certain there has been no trans servicing at all. I'll have to check if or when Ford recommend it. On the Mrs car I only do intermediate oil changes and things like discs and pads to save bucks. There are no issues with operation though. Cheers.


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    Last edited by seasink; 15th May 2016 at 07:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    And I understand that Penrite fully synthetic ATF is a suitable substitute, it certainly was for my ex Toyota, which specified Toyota Type iv ATF.

    And you can buy Penrite FS ATF nearly anywhere at around $11/ L. In fact the Penrite ATF gave smoother changes than the (gold impregnated) Toyota iv ATF I'd religiously used in the past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Tell the auto-correct to speak in schoolboy French.


    Page from the previous Maintenance and Warranty Guide, for C5 (Sime Darby has a new one) and other Cits:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	service.jpg 
Views:	1308 
Size:	94.0 KB 
ID:	84390
    The same manual gives the fluid part number, so you get the right stuff - AM6: 9980.D4


    PS Sime Darby's current manual is silent on this transmission.

    This maintenance schedule shows the recommendation for a CVT transmission.

    I thought the AM6 was a six speed torque converter type ?

    Richard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Hmm. Ours has done 97,000 mainly dealer serviced km and I'm certain there has been no trans servicing at all. I'll have to check if or when Ford recommend it. On the Mrs car I only do intermediate oil changes and things like discs and pads to save bucks. There are no issues with operation though. Cheers.
    Hey Stuey - from looking at how this transmission works, and which symptoms are caused by which parts wearing out and/or sticking, I believe the economical thing to do with yours is to get that transmission oil changed in the very near future. By the time symptoms appear, you could be facing a losing battle that fresh transmission oil will not help. Have a sticky beak in the fluid that comes out, you'll see the metal that will have been doing the badness. Yes there are other issues that arise but that's the long slow grind that kills most of them. If you have a workshop do it, get them to report back or show you the old oil, and the sensible thing is to change the oil more than once, until the resultant fluid comes out visibly cleaner. Some do it 3 or 4 times at 3 litres each time for boxes with your kind of mileage on them. Seems to me whether it is recommended in your car's maintenance schedule or not, these transmissions don't have a chance of lasting the life of the engine without regular oil changes.
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    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

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    That page appears to be ambiguous. The plain reading is all transmissions (the AM6 is an epicyclic type) at 60,000 and CVT/AWD with a separate recommendation, but I suppose it could apply to only those transmissions.

    Perhaps we ought to research what the many car companies that use these boxes say. Deliberately letting fluid go crook and then diagnosing trouble seems insane to me. I change fluid.
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    You are spot on seasink, and whilst some documents from Citroen might refer to changing the transmission oil in some vehicles, I have in front of me clear recommended maintenance schedules (Citroen documentation for my actual vehicle) that specifically lists renewal of the transmission oil as not being required all the way up to and including 160,000km and nothing recommended beyond that point, i.e. never is it recommended. I could scan it if you wish but what's the point. This was apparently routine for European manufacturers with these 'sealed for life' boxes (NB nobody actually believes this - 'sealed for life' s a phrase I used in jest in case you didn't realise this was how I was using the phrase). Even Mercedes do this for the ZF boxes that give similar trouble - when I asked a dealership service manager in Melbourne why they don't recommend changing the transmission oil in their schedules he explained it's a European emissions issue that the manufacturers conform to in their documentation but in reality the good workshops tell their customers it's necessary to change the oil every 60-80k in the 4HP20 which I have in my Vito van. Call me slow on the uptake (I agree with you), but I didn't realise the AW boxes require the same TLC despite Citroen's documentation. Now I've researched how these boxes work, it's obvious that they all wear out for the same reasons. Shit in the oil and a filter that can't be changed without removing and disassembling the transmission.
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

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    Hi EB, the one I bought was for a Laguna - different box, similar pricing, same company. It arrived without any loose accessories.
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