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Thread: AM6 Gearbox Oil Change

  1. #26
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    Reading the many forums over the years on our cars, it appears that many of these " sealed for life " auto transmissions are failing prematurely around the 80 -120K mark, presumably caused by contaminated oil. The ubiquitous AL4 appears to be one of worst culprits, also failing when owners attempting to do the right thing have used Dexron 111 in an oil change as a supposedly suitable suitable substitute for the old Dexron 11. Atleast this particular problem should not be a problem now with the availability of suitable full synthetic universal oils.
    For the purchaser of a new car with auto transmission, & planning to keep it for many years, I would suggest an early oil change at , say, 10K, on my assumption that particulate contamination would be at the extreme during the running in period when clutches & etc. are bedding in. Three drains in quick succession should result in close to a complete change, thereafter , regular drains at 20K, or at engine oil change cycles. Oil is cheap, especially if you do it yourself & buy it when on special, whilst transmissions can easily break the bank & write a car off. A car maintained in this way should also command a much better sale price when the time comes, especially from those of us in the know.

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  2. #27
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    There is no pan under these, and the screen is internal. I'd rather do a partial drain and take out any debris than have it in the solenoids and valves. That costs money, and far too often.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Hi EB, the one I bought was for a Laguna - different box, similar pricing, same company. It arrived without any loose accessories.
    Thanks addo, I gather it was as described and functions perfectly well? I'm about to press the button on one for our C5.
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


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  4. #29
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    Interestingly, the C6 mechanics' handbook has a piece about talking to the owner about faults that show up (mode dégradé). If so, then look to see if the "huile est brûlée". Now that you know you have a problem, you can change the fluid! The method follows.


    PS The handbook:
    La vidange de la boîte de vitesses doit s'effectuer huile chaude (60°C minimum), pour éliminer les impuretés en suspension dans l'huile
    Impurities? It's sealed for life!
    Last edited by seasink; 16th May 2016 at 02:20 PM.
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  5. #30
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Well I think I have just found out that changing the oil doesn't really prolong the life of the solenoids that much anyway. On the way home from Autobarn this morning, I decided to give the C5X7 a bit more stick than usual and the AM6 did a big flair followed by quite a thump on the 2nd to 3rd change (I think it was). I was fine on normal driving after that. So that's with 2 oil changes at 60kkm and another 2 at about 125kkm just before Easter this year. The car is now at about 132kkm. I noticed a large improvement in changes after the first oil change at 60kkm but only a slight improvement at the second change. I have used Penrite fully synth AFT that is Type IV rated. When I get a chance I will stick the diagbox and check the fluid level.

    I am aware that some of the CCCQ club members with series 2 C5s are having similar problems - OK in gentle driving, clunking in auto mode and OK when shifting gears in manual mode. They are just living with it at the moment. Mine is the first C5X7 I have heard to have a problem.

    Electroboy, what additive did you use to help the solenoids work better?

    Cheers, Ken W

  6. #31
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    How's the clunking, Ken? Was it a fairly isolated happening as you describe above, or has it started occurring more often?

  7. #32
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    Ken, I used the Lucas one, but I have to say after a few weeks the box now gets clunky and flares on occasion once it gets up over 80°C fluid temp. Whilst I briefly contemplated banana skins, I'm now looking forward to the arrival of the valve body. I don't think the additive was effective other than it seems to prolong the period before misbehaviour kicked back in, perhaps delaying the trans oil getting up to full temp and masking the worn parts in this case. Hard to say exactly because I haven't monitored oil temp on enough occasions.

    Geoff
    Last edited by electroboy; 31st May 2016 at 09:45 PM.
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


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  8. #33
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Addo,

    The box has only done the one flare so far the one I reported above. I usually drive it pretty quietly with a bit of manual override to make it change down going down hills and to keep it in the selected gear and locked up when on undulating roads. But Susan gives it much more stick and hasn't reported it doing anything unusual for her. I have also felt that it sometimes gets a bit indecisive when is it sitting on a gearchange point at light throttle but that could be my imagination although once Susan said what happened there. I have decided to wait and see what happens seeing it is only 5000km since I did a double oil change.

    We had an AL4 in a 2002 Xsara that had been rebuilt by A&B before we bought it that would not lock up, flared 1st to second changes especially when cold, and retarded the engine on start off - very off-putting for newbie drivers. When it got to the stage it was going into limp mode, we tried some Lucas additive and it did nothing to change the symptoms. My son then changed the lockup and the regulator solenoids and said that we should have done it years ago as the difference was amazing. No more flaring on changes and no retarding the ignition on start up. We didn't have it long enough to seriously work out if the lock-up would work after some battery off time or reseting the auto adaptives.

    Cheers, Ken

  9. #34
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    I am aware that some of the CCCQ club members with series 2 C5s are having similar problems - OK in gentle driving, clunking in auto mode and OK when shifting gears in manual mode. They are just living with it at the moment. Mine is the first C5X7 I have heard to have a problem.

    Electroboy, what additive did you use to help the solenoids work better?

    Cheers, Ken W[/QUOTE]

    Just noticed this post and in particular that "......clunking in auto mode and OK when shifting gears in manual mode". Recently discovered that although ours clunks when de-accelerating (especially 4th to 3rd) when in auto mode, if a lower gear is manually selected, then clunk does not appear to be there? Can't think of logic of why this would be the case?
    Last edited by turnbull151; 13th October 2016 at 02:42 PM.

  10. #35
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    . So that's with 2 oil changes at 60kkm and another 2 at about 125kkm just before Easter this year. The car is now at about 132kkm. I noticed a large improvement in changes after the first oil change at 60kkm but only a slight improvement at the second change.
    Cheers, Ken W
    I think oil changes every 60k is way too long. I change the oil on our AL4 equipped Xantia every 20k and have never noted any improvements after oil changes. If a change is noted, that confirms servicing too late.

    The clunking people experience when the box is cold is normal, it is just the computers way to get oil temperature up. It holds onto first to very high revs with the inevitable rough change to second on the light throttle opening you would normally used driving up you street. The way to smooth it out a bit is to give it more throttle, again counterintuitive on a cold engine.
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  11. #36
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    Link to Aisin-Warner oil spec for the AM6 box

    https://www.ipdusa.com/files/product...NTERCHANGE.PDF

    Link to Penrite FS auto fluid - at least a couple of specs cross over which means the Penrite fluid is good to use

    http://penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_...ll%20Syn.).pdf

    Cheers

    Justin
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  12. #37
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    Hi Guys,

    Our old red 2006 C5 wagon is just reached 300,000K. It's a 2.0 HDI with the AM6 box. It was a repairable write off at 75,000.

    The gearbox oil was changed then, and has been changed at around 40,000 k intervals. I've always used Nulon Multipurpose Full Synthetic gear oil. The gearbox works like new.

    To overcome the inability to change all the oil in a gearbox that hasn't been previously changed, you can continue to add transmission fluid while the engine is running until your happy with the cleanliness of the oil continuing to drain.

    This method gets a better flush and saves the need to do it for a second time.

    Hope this helps?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Hi Guys,

    ....snip.....

    To overcome the inability to change all the oil in a gearbox that hasn't been previously changed, you can continue to add transmission fluid while the engine is running until your happy with the cleanliness of the oil continuing to drain.

    This method gets a better flush and saves the need to do it for a second time.

    Hope this helps?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    Interesting technique. I realise conditions will vary the requirements, but how much oil would you suggest the 'trickle' change might take ? I'm guessing something like 3 litres for the initial change and maybe another 3 litres for the 'trickle' ? The only issue is that you might not get the oil to temp doing it this way.

    I'm ready to give this a go !

    Cheers

    Justin
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  14. #39
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    Have decided to change the oil on both our AM6 gearboxes. Have found the T40 level screw totally rounded on one of the cars. Any thoughts on how to get it off? A T40 tool just spins freely and a T45 is too big. There is no way to remove the 17mm hex drain bolt without removing the level screw first.

    Help.

  15. #40
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi,

    You have no choice but to use an easy out or something similar. It a tool that has a tapered left hand thread. You find one the correct size, and as you screw it in anti clockwise it bites into the torks recess, and screws the plug out.

    You may have to drill in a little deeper for it to bite properly.

    This is a common problem!

    I keep spare new plugs for our own cars, so can help you out with replacement and O Ring.

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  16. #41
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    Butcher methods include grinding a screwdriver slot, or driving in an allen key, but these may leave you with the job of finding a replacement. You could also try using an angled centre punch on the broad edge to persuade it to untighten.

    Another way, a lot less destructive, is to invest in one of these AM6 Gearbox Oil Change-extractors.jpg

    PS I have seen them in cased sets at $40 odd.
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  17. #42
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    Who knew such things existed. Thanks fellas.

  18. #43
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    I thought it was just me .mines stuffed too ,last time i removed it ,i had to use a small cole chisel on the outer edge being careful not to damage the hex in the drain plug , i cut a slot across it with a hack saw put it back in with a screw driver ,next time i do it i will be replacing the level plug with an allen bolt from the nut and bolt place ,i tried to find a replacement on my stash at the time but couldn't match the thread ,pugs

  19. #44
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    Are the replacement new valve bodies any more reliable than the original fitment ?
    Does anyone know if there has been an upgrade to the part to improve quality ? The teflon lining ??? )
    Will the replacement valve body last any longer than the original one ? especially as we are now more knowledgable about the need to do regular oil changes...and the procedure to do so is no longer in the realm of "black magic".

  20. #45
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    Hi Guys,

    Lots of interesting reading here......

    The drain plugs for the AM6 are dirt cheap ($2.89), and a plain torx screw won't do the job, as the original has a machining for an o'ring. I suppose that you could use a small copper washer, but I don't like altering parts when there is no need?

    I keep spare plugs, but just used the last o ring, but will be ordering more.

    I think there is a general consensus that the solenoid valve problem is a factory fault, and no amount of oil changing is going to fix it. The oils changes are to keep the oil clean, and hopefully extend the life of the gearbox in general?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  21. #46
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    Hi Eveyone

    I have been reading this article and so many other regarding the correct ATF for the 2012 C5 X7 3.0 V6HDI 6speed auto. Well I gave Citroen South Africa a call with The VIN in hand. They quoted me on a liter of 9734R7 atf which I did a google search on and saw it also has a code JWS3324 which is a toyota T-WS atf and not a T-IV ATF. Needless to say Citroen charged me $533 per liter, yup, no jokes, per liter!

    Would JWS3324 or then T-WS be the correct oil? Car is sitting at 55000km and I'd like to keep the box in working order as long as possible. I have been searching far and wide and i am getting inconclusive info, but now after contacting Citroen with the VIN I finally got some sort of a conclusive lead. Can you guys confirm?

    Thanks in advance
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