DS Panel Gaps
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 34
Like Tree31Likes

Thread: DS Panel Gaps

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! bleudanube's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    267

    Default DS Panel Gaps

    Might look like an obvious question and of course gaps should be " as small and even as possible", but what dimensions are factory standard or common on a DS? Is around 10mm normal/acceptable?

    Sven

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ici.
    Posts
    2,560

    Default

    have you got the manuals Svenster? Pretty sure they're in there at the back.

    800-02 in 583-1. 2mm gaps. (WHAT????) ergh.
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 1st May 2016 at 04:56 PM.

  3. #3
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    8,184

    Icon3

    Quote Originally Posted by bleudanube View Post
    Might look like an obvious question and of course gaps should be " as small and even as possible", but what dimensions are factory standard or common on a DS? Is around 10mm normal/acceptable?

    Sven
    From what I've seen in the manuals 814-1 there is not a definitive answer, if you can achieve anything under 10mm you are doing well. Probably as important is that the gaps are as close to equal as you can get them - another point to take into account, from front to rear, rear edge of front guard should be 1 - 2mm proud of the forward edge of the front door, in turn the front door should be 1 - 2mm proud of the rear door etc. this is to alleviate wind noise at speed.

    Darker colours will always be more forgiving with less contrast to the rubbers between gaps. If you end up with a car 4874mm. in length you have done well

    Cheers
    Chris
    59 Floride, FedGrapes and ds21bvh like this.
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  4. #4
    Administrator
    mistareno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,926

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    From what I've seen in the manuals 814-1 there is not a definitive answer, if you can achieve anything under 10mm you are doing well. Probably as important is that the gaps are as close to equal as you can get them - another point to take into account, from front to rear, rear edge of front guard should be 1 - 2mm proud of the forward edge of the front door, in turn the front door should be 1 - 2mm proud of the rear door etc. this is to alleviate wind noise at speed.

    Darker colours will always be more forgiving with less contrast to the rubbers between gaps. If you end up with a car 4874mm. in length you have done well

    Cheers
    Chris
    Lexus engineers have just committed mass suicide...

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,090

    Default

    hari kari ?

  6. #6
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,344

    Default

    Why would DS drivers care what Toyota drivers think?

    Roger
    UFO, Mort Subite and addo like this.

  7. #7
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    The correct gap is gauged with a Gauloise under way.

  8. #8
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    Citroën Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,719

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Why would DS drivers care what Toyota drivers think?

    Roger
    I care what (or if!) they are thinking when they are anywhere near my D in traffic. All hail to twin airhorns - Camry drivers DO hear them!
    daffyduck and addo like this.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Lake Keepit NSW
    Posts
    818

    Default

    The correct gaps are not "as small as possible"

    They are about 10 mm, but are dictated by the fit of the doors to the pillar seals.
    You can go by the glass, but this is adjustable within the door.
    So Set the doors to best fit within the pillar seals.... If you are inclined... adjust the glass within the door.

    Check the resultant gaps.... adjust to the best average......

    Then set the 4 wings to similar gaps off the doors... of course paying attention to width for good bonnet and boot fit.

    This can take several days....... If you start with a straight frame and straight panels.

    It can take forever if something is out of shape.
    UFO and Fingers like this.
    Bob
    '57 Slough DS19, Buttercup
    '60 2CV 1220, Raid Runner
    Several DS19 and 2CV projects

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! lamoor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    sydney-newport
    Posts
    367

    Default DS Panel Gaps

    what's a toyota ???? please explain !

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Why would DS drivers care what Toyota drivers think?

    Roger
    UFO and addo like this.

  11. #11
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    It's something driven by people who crash into you without a scrap of conscience. And the best air horn does nothing when they're about to run up your rear.
    shanadoo and UFO like this.

  12. #12
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    Citroën Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,719

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    The correct gaps are not "as small as possible"

    They are about 10 mm, but are dictated by the fit of the doors to the pillar seals.
    You can go by the glass, but this is adjustable within the door.
    So Set the doors to best fit within the pillar seals.... If you are inclined... adjust the glass within the door.

    Check the resultant gaps.... adjust to the best average......

    Then set the 4 wings to similar gaps off the doors... of course paying attention to width for good bonnet and boot fit.

    This can take several days....... If you start with a straight frame and straight panels.

    It can take forever if something is out of shape.
    And NEVER have the windows wound all the way up whilst panel adjusting etc without CAREFULLY checking that they do not catch the edge of roof rail - unless you like cleaning up shattered glass and replacing windows.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ici.
    Posts
    2,560

    Default

    bon point!

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! bleudanube's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    267

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    From what I've seen in the manuals 814-1 there is not a definitive answer, if you can achieve anything under 10mm you are doing well. Probably as important is that the gaps are as close to equal as you can get them - another point to take into account, from front to rear, rear edge of front guard should be 1 - 2mm proud of the forward edge of the front door, in turn the front door should be 1 - 2mm proud of the rear door etc. this is to alleviate wind noise at speed.

    Darker colours will always be more forgiving with less contrast to the rubbers between gaps. If you end up with a car 4874mm. in length you have done well

    Cheers
    Chris
    4874 mm ..... I 'll do my best

    looks like my 10mm is a fair challenge to aim for... So far I am in the +/- 2mm range... But not all panels on yet anyway. Must admit the passenger side went on well, the driver's side has been a bit trickier. Had to shuffle the shims a bit. And the rear quarter panel needed quite a bit of prodding to fit in - I guess it is more the new rubbers than the panel fit.

    one of the issues I have now that side is that the doors need too much force to close. They latch into the first set of teeth on the striker plate, but not easily into the second one. Especially the rear door hasn't got sufficient adjustment in the plate to make it shut after I cleaned up ( i.e filed the teeth) the teeth a bit to not make it catch... Now it wont shut correctly. Maybe I need a new striker plate?

    Anyway, will need more tinkering, but first I have to get all the panels on anyway.

    Sven

  15. #15
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    8,184

    Icon3

    Quote Originally Posted by bleudanube View Post
    4874 mm ..... I 'll do my best

    And the rear quarter panel needed quite a bit of prodding to fit in - I guess it is more the new rubbers than the panel fit.


    Sven
    Those rubbers have a tapered hole, you do have them fitted the right way around, yes?

    Dimensions yes 4874mm



    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS Panel Gaps-ds-dimensions.jpg  
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! bleudanube's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    267

    Default

    Yes, got the rubber blocks right... I was more talking of the top sealing rubber... It is new and not yet bent into shape...

  17. #17
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    8,184

    Icon11

    Quote Originally Posted by bleudanube View Post
    Yes, got the rubber blocks right... I was more talking of the top sealing rubber... It is new and not yet bent into shape...
    Ahhh, repro rubber - it will crumble in a few weeks and no longer be a problem

    Cheers
    Chris
    Hotrodelectric and michaelr like this.
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  18. #18
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Coolum Beach
    Posts
    1,914

    Default

    Hey, Hang on !

    I only measure mine to be 4855 mm. Using plumbob and laser distomat .
    I've always heard it's the extra inch that makes the difference !

    Tomorrow I'm using the laser theodolite to double check.
    Someone must have run up the @rse of my DS!

    Post the length of yours!
    GreenBlood likes this.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

    DS23 IE Pallas Automatique
    C5 X7 163 Exclusive
    C3 II 2010

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    691

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Why would DS drivers care what Toyota drivers think? Roger
    When they are Toyota drivers themselves... I have 2 Toyotas that I absolutely love...

    DS panel gaps are a really interesting thing. My understanding is when they were new the gaps were not that great... and supported by my recent experience with a complete NOS body where many small adjustments to the meeting edges (with a hammer) were required to get everything to match up nicely. No big deal at all - but I'm not sure the factory may have gone to the same trouble.

    This was after many hours re shimming the whole thing. The radius curve on the rear of the front guards compared to the front doors can be very different as can the rear guard alignment with the back of the rear door - especially at the top.

    Someone said to me once that the panels were arranged into categories A, B and C - not sure what that meant but A panels did not work with C panels... I'd love to know if this was true or not...?

    Absolute size in mm is much less important than being even top to bottom and the same gap front to back - that is why I start from the back. Get the correct depth and angle from the rear bumper and work forward from there. It's easier to achieve back to front as there is a lot of adjustability at the front of the car - not much at the rear.

    Some pics of aligning the body on my 71 - I hope they help...

    Cheers,

    Mark...










    Last edited by ds21bvh; 2nd May 2016 at 12:41 AM.
    michaelr, forumnoreason and mberry like this.

  20. #20
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    8,184

    Icon3

    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    When they are Toyota drivers themselves... I have 2 Toyotas that I absolutely love...

    DS panel gaps are a really interesting thing. My understanding is when they were new the gaps were not that great... and supported by my recent experience with a complete NOS body where many small adjustments to the meeting edges (with a hammer) were required to get everything to match up nicely. No big deal at all - but I'm not sure the factory may have gone to the same trouble.

    This was after many hours re shimming the whole thing. The radius curve on the rear of the front guards compared to the front doors can be very different as can the rear guard alignment with the back of the rear door - especially at the top.

    Someone said to me once that the panels were arranged into categories A, B and C - not sure what that meant but A panels did not work with C panels... I'd love to know if this was true or not...?

    Absolute size in mm is much less important than being even top to bottom and the same gap front to back - that is why I start from the back. Get the correct depth and angle from the rear bumper and work forward from there. It's easier to achieve back to front as there is a lot of adjustability at the front of the car - not much at the rear.

    Some pics of aligning the body on my 71 - I hope they help...

    Cheers,

    Mark...


    Looking really nice Mark

    There must be a thousand ways to approach panel gaps, the manual advises to start at the front and work back. You're having success working from the rear forward - my approach is more as Bob describes front door first as it has to fit the pillar rubbers especially at the hip, I then work back and finally front guards and bonnet. Getting the bonnet to line up with the guard and doors is a challenge but it does all come together - working from scratch I doubt I could get it close given a week so there is no chance the factory would be as fussy.



    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    1,955

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    I care what (or if!) they are thinking when they are anywhere near my D in traffic. All hail to twin airhorns - Camry drivers DO hear them!
    Godamn right they do! Wake their slacker asses up 5 seconds before you're one second away from point of impact so you have 4 seconds to take evasive/defensive action. DO NOT TRUST THOSE (koolaid drinking) F#CKS.

    As to panel gaps? They weren't that great when the cars were new so don't go apesh!t trying to perfect them now.
    addo likes this.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    1,955

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Those rubbers have a tapered hole, you do have them fitted the right way around, yes?

    Dimensions yes 4874mm



    Cheers
    Chris
    Cripes mate.
    Every one of these cars is now way past 40 years old and practically every one of them has been shortened, front or rear, by what I guesstimate to be 20-50 mm.

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,769

    Default

    Both projects looking very tidy there. However, lining up bare panels is one thing, but doing it again with rubbers fitted is likely to throw it all out. You have to take them into consideration because you may find the gap that makes the panels look good when bare is just not enough to allow the rubber to fit or it turns out to be too much and you will then have a leak at a door. You can only move the rear guards forward so much and the front guards back so much, leaving you with a shortage of metal of at least an inch to spread around evenly down each side. Having a selection of the different shims on hand is also really handy. There are also shims behind the strikers and you make have to pack them up to make it all work. In short, it can be a trying job to get an excellent fit if using panels that didn't already fit together fairly well. A lot of cars actually have terrible panel fit that you only start to notice after you've been through the exercise. Don't forget, as press tools age, the definition of edges and curves can be lost, so NOS spare panels may differ a little for that reason. As an example, you can pick early vs late Jag MkX doors by the sharpness of the belt line if you see them together. It's very crisp on early examples, but less so on the later cars built almost a decade later.
    Last edited by David S; 2nd May 2016 at 12:33 AM.
    shanadoo and mberry like this.

  24. #24
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    Hey, Hang on !

    I only measure mine to be 4855 mm. Using plumbob and laser distomat .
    I've always heard it's the extra inch that makes the difference !

    Tomorrow I'm using the laser theodolite to double check.
    Someone must have run up the @rse of my DS!

    Post the length of yours!
    Oh, wonderful. The boys are having still yet another car measuring contest.
    shanadoo likes this.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  25. #25
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Coolum Beach
    Posts
    1,914

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Oh, wonderful. The boys are having still yet another car measuring contest.
    Ok then, Bill, off you go and measure yours . - As everything else-. metal shrinks when cold.
    You're still in cool weather over there, and we've been having 30deg C in Queensland. Statistics dictate yours will be shorter than mine.
    In millimetres please .
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

    DS23 IE Pallas Automatique
    C5 X7 163 Exclusive
    C3 II 2010

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •