TA wheel brakes
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Thread: TA wheel brakes

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default TA wheel brakes

    Hi


    continuing with my TA. I have replaced brake pump: it was a hard job °° Now I am going to the wheels cylinders.
    Did anybody took off the front brake drum without 1750T & 1820T tools? I couldn't get these tools here.
    I will attempt with a bearing extractor: any comment? Is it dangerous for the drum?

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    Thanks a lot.
    Cheers

  2. #2
    Tadpole
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    I would not recommend using anything but the correct puller and don't use a hammer of any sort.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger
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    I was reading the small paperback from 1975 'Why Citroen' over the weekend and it discusses TA (not Six) front hubs and driveshafts at one point. The lesson given was that in this case one should never lubricate the key and contact surfaces between the shaft and hub on assembly as the design is intended to operate via molecular interaction rather than relying on the key. So, he suggests, check the conical surfaces are a perfect fit with most focus on the larger end (have machined if necessary), assemble dry, tighten the nut (198 ft/lb quoted) and grease externally. Removal would then need a suitable puller - fit, tighten + careful sharp tap to free. If you lube, it will apparently just move and chew out the keyways, which would be an expensive mistake.

    Any thoughts from the TA old hands???

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    I have heard of The 'taper ' being unsealed by hitting a jacked wheel with a suitable lump of wood from behind if you do not have a puller. Doesn't sound great but might work in an emergency. The taper should alway go into the drum dry as described above It is a press fit and comes off nicely with the puller. The grooved flange on the front drum is designed for the puller to work. The groove on the wheel bearing facilitates the second puller for disassembly.
    Don't forget wheel nuts unscrew towards the front of the car on both sides.
    '04 Megane
    Gone but not forgotten
    '71 16 TS, '72 16 TL, '74 15TS,'82 20TS Series 2, '85 25 GTX. '49 L15,

  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    I did at last !!


    With the bearing puller applying much pressure. Of course I loosened the brake adjustment . With a wheel I waited 48 hours of soaking with the W40 . I despaired ; I drilled a hole 8 mm of the brake plate and generously spray the inside of the drum with a mixture of LHM ( green blood ) and gasoline. I also lightly beat the drum from behind. After 10 minutes I took a nasty blow to the screw in the center of the extractor and voilŠ!! The other wheel was easy.

    Thank you very much for your interest .


    Now my concern is the thickness of the brake drums: what is the minimum tolerable ? Here is difficult to find some good second hand. Buy in Europe is for me impossible.


    Thanks again.
    Last edited by Zeque; 19th April 2016 at 02:01 AM. Reason: misspelled
    JohnW likes this.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    It is always a last resort move to machine the brake drums. They are a compound drum with a flexible outer riveted or bolted ( depending on type ) to the central hub. Unless the operator really knows what he is doing it is possible to induce an out of round condition that will cause brake vibration of the worst kind. Congratulations on finding a way to remove the drums with out the correct tool. It is likely that the easy one was never tight enough in the first place. When refitting check the condition of the stub axle and the matching taper bore of the hub. Damage here means that new parts will need to be sourced. Take careful note of the torque required to provide secure fixing to the tapered stub axle these cannot be remachined as the drum will not sit in proper alignment with the brake shoes. Neither can the stubs be built up to remachine to the original dimensions. It would be dangerous as the stub would be prone to breaking under stress loads.

    PS get someone to make you a drum puller if you cannot import from Europe ( CTA Netherlands are good and have a web site ) The drum puller also has split collars for the outer bearing. You will also need a tube spanner for the inner bearing locking nut ( it is castellated and also thread direction handed just like the stub axle nut. ( L/hand side =right hand thread and R/hand side = left hand thread )
    Last edited by gerrypro; 19th April 2016 at 08:13 AM.
    Cheers Gerry

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    I was reading the small paperback from 1975 'Why Citroen' over the weekend and it discusses TA (not Six) front hubs and driveshafts at one point. The lesson given was that in this case one should never lubricate the key and contact surfaces between the shaft and hub on assembly as the design is intended to operate via molecular interaction rather than relying on the key. So, he suggests, check the conical surfaces are a perfect fit with most focus on the larger end (have machined if necessary), assemble dry, tighten the nut (198 ft/lb quoted) and grease externally. Removal would then need a suitable puller - fit, tighten + careful sharp tap to free. If you lube, it will apparently just move and chew out the keyways, which would be an expensive mistake.

    Any thoughts from the TA old hands???
    Hi David and TA'ites,
    I was taught in my trade that a taper fit was ALWAYS FITTED DRY. Over the years working on all sorts of machinery and cars that has been the norm. Lubing a taper will always cause problems.


    Now getting them off may be a problem but that's what pullers are for. If you do not have one make one. Pulling on the correct area, on a TA the hub the groove, is always important so you do not warp the assembly.

    On a different topic, study the assembly of the brake parts so you can set them up correctly. You will not have the tool to do the shoes anchor adjustment so make one perhaps or ask how to do it before you final assemble..
    Jaahn

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    Thicker linings?
    '04 Megane
    Gone but not forgotten
    '71 16 TS, '72 16 TL, '74 15TS,'82 20TS Series 2, '85 25 GTX. '49 L15,

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Dears TA'ites


    >Trading Estate ... The taper should alway go into the drum dry as described above


    >David S .... one should never lubricate the key and contact surfaces between the shaft and hub on assembly as the design is intended to operate via molecular interaction rather than relying on the key. So ...... assemble dry, tighten the nut ... 198 ft/lb


    >Gerrypro ....- check the condition of the stub axle and the matching taper bore of the hub. Damage here means new parts ....... Take careful note of the torque required to provide secure fixing to the tapered stub axle these cannot be remachined as the drum will not sit in proper alignment with the brake shoes. Neither can the stubs be built up to remachine to the original dimensions.




    I think that these are very good advices; besides , I had never read some of them before. I find it very interesting and it sounds logical unlubricated assemble the parts : it is almost a "cold welding" of the parts.




    >Gerrypro ... get someone to make you a drum puller


    Yes, I'll do that. I'm actually urged to move the TA so I need to have brakes . And with time I go about doing the right tools.


    >Jaahn ....Pulling on the correct area, on a TA the hub the groove, is always important so you do not warp the assembly.


    I have made a couple of semi-moons to embrace the drum groove and I have put them in the extractor. In that way I thought to distribute pressure all around the groove


    >Jaahn .... You will not have the tool to do the shoes anchor adjustment so make one perhaps or ask how to do it before you final assemble..


    I think I'll do a "Concentricity checking apparatus" (2100T). It doesn't look very difficult to do.




    I'm learning a lot with your contributions : I am very grateful.


    cheers

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