2cv / dyane light question
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Thread: 2cv / dyane light question

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Default 2cv / dyane light question

    Hi Everyone,

    I'm working away getting the Dyane ready for the raid. I'm thinking it would be good to improve lighting a little in case we get stuck driving after dark (not that I have any desire to get a roo or buffalo imprint in the Dyane). The various "plus" bulbs look like a good option, and I have purchased some adapters so that I can fit P43T globes into the original lights.

    Question is - the "plus" bulbs all seem to be 60/55, where as the orginals where 45/40. So will the alternator be able to keep up, and can the reflectors handle the extra heat?

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    Cheers,
    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  2. #2
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    Don't forget to install relays in the headlight circuits as the switch struggles with even the basic wattage globes.

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    Andrew, whilst not familiar with your Dyane, provided you follow Citroenut's advice with relays (apart from the relays getting the current direct to the globes, they also greatly reduce the work done by the light switch) I pretty sure that "your" Dyane's lights would have metal reflectors, so the P43t Quartz Halogen(?) globes would be OK. As for the alternator, you did say alternator and not generator? The alternator (55 amp or close to it?) will cope, that is, I would not worry about it, for heavens sake you are not going to be driving from dusk to dawn and have every modern add on accessory on are you?

    John

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    I'm working away getting the Dyane ready for the raid. I'm thinking it would be good to improve lighting a little in case we get stuck driving after dark (not that I have any desire to get a roo or buffalo imprint in the Dyane). The various "plus" bulbs look like a good option, and I have purchased some adapters so that I can fit P43T globes into the original lights.

    Question is - the "plus" bulbs all seem to be 60/55, where as the orginals where 45/40. So will the alternator be able to keep up, and can the reflectors handle the extra heat?

    Cheers,
    Andrew

  4. #4
    JBN
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    I've always run the quartz halogen globes on mine, and without relays. No problems. Plus I generally run with headlights on during the day.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I've always run the quartz halogen globes on mine, and without relays. No problems. Plus I generally run with headlights on during the day.

    John
    Is that because the switch contacts have welded closed?
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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by badabec View Post
    Is that because the switch contacts have welded closed?
    Ha ha. Not as yet. I keep the switch contacts cool by driving flat out with the drivers window flapping to allow plenty of cooling air.

    In 2CV talk, this is known as driving at the speed of light.

    John

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    Thanks for the sage advice! Yes they are metal reflectors.

    The alternator is only 30A = 360W @ 12V, but I guess it is not doing much / anything else other than powering the ignition and lights, so should be ok - and if not, there is always the crank handle...

    Cheers,
    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I was told by Lumenition their system with a proprietary hot coil was unlikely to pop a 5A circuit, so you might assume similar for a 123 distributor - presuming that is fitted.

    Two 60 watt globes will only draw 10A in theory, so I think your alternator is OK. Relays, good terminals and heavy gauge wiring will add a lot of "free" quality to the light. You can also get "off road only" versions of many dual filament globes with 100W on the unprotected beam. Carry a spare regulator and a points ignition system.

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    JBN
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    I suggest if you need lumination on Raid for after dark activities, any torch or LED light will find a spot to dig a hole. Burn your toilet paper after use which will signal all others where NOT to dig.

    No one drives at night on Raid. We are all too pissed to find our cars.

    John
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    Go for it (as per your original post) and enjoy Dyane , you have nothing to worry about. (Relays are not essential provided that heavy wires feed the lights. Nevertheless, it is the right/correct thing to do. I can assure you that all vehicles use relays post the very old days of motoring!)

    John

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post
    Thanks for the sage advice! Yes they are metal reflectors.

    The alternator is only 30A = 360W @ 12V, but I guess it is not doing much / anything else other than powering the ignition and lights, so should be ok - and if not, there is always the crank handle...

    Cheers,
    Andrew

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    The thing I like most about relays, is they greatly reduce the risk of a major under-dash fire. Having seen two dash harnesses smoke up (standard spec HQ Holden and butchered XM Falcon) the idea of reducing amperage in that area to negligible levels per wire, appeals enormously. Most older dash harnesses bundle the fuel sender wire in with the rest, so if you have a live positive wire that's burning off its insulation, it may seek a ground via the fuel tank sender... Not a good prospect!

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    Andrew,
    within a year of buying my first Dyane in 1980, I'd "switched" over to these halogen bulbs, which are a direct fit in any A series headlamps designed to accept P45t bulbs.
    Set of 4 55/60 watt halogen bulbs, p45t flange, for all 2cv6 The 2cv site, Ecas 2cv parts, fast mail order spare parts for Deux Chevaux

    During the years since then, every car I've serviced including my own fleet of three Dyanes, all used as everyday transport, have been fitted with the same bulbs and none of the possible problems you've outlined have been experienced.

    Note that Dyane light switches are more robust than the 2CV type, with the latter suffering even more in those later 2CVs which had been fitted with the dreadful 'dim-dip' setup.
    Many 2CV switches have experienced early failure because that setup was not disabled asap.

    Ken.

    (p.s. Your crate is about ready to go, but it might be possible to accomodate any last-minute requests for bits and pieces to fill the gaps before the lid is screwed onto the box early next week...
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/301328...posted-public/ )
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    What a great box! I have crate envy.

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    Ok, dived straight in to start fitting the relays. First up, I fitted a second fuse box out of a dead GS.2cv / dyane light question-20160417_150228%5B1%5D.jpg
    One of my pet hates is modified wiring (which more often than not is poorly done) = impossible to debug when something goes wrong. So the logic here is to run all the non-standard wiring a seperate fuse box and circuits (i.e. relayed head lights, reversing lights, hand brake warning, CB radio)

    All was going well until I found this:
    2cv / dyane light question-20160417_150237%5B1%5D.jpg
    Grrrrr Un-fused wires connected to the voltage regulator and through the headlight adjuster hole with out any protection. Turns out these are the +ve supply reversing light, brake light and handbrake light. Looks like it would only be a matter of time before these rubbed though and fried who knows what! So happy I found them, but more work to do.

    A couple of questions - I've found what looks like a good solid state regulator out of a GS - is there any reason why I would not adapt it to work in the Dyane?

    Also any advise on getting a reasonable quality crimping tool and crimps? In the past I have gotten away with soldering, but don't want to take any risks with the raid car...

    Cheers,
    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    I bought a Jaycar ratcheting one a few years back, it is great. Joe Schembri kept trying to borrow it for his RAID car prep, if his car is still OK then it's proof of the crimps...

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    A couple of questions - I've found what looks like a good solid state regulator out of a GS - is there any reason why I would not adapt it to work in the Dyane?
    I would have to check to be certain, but I think they're the same regulator. Depends on how early the Dyane is.

    Also any advise on getting a reasonable quality crimping tool and crimps? In the past I have gotten away with soldering, but don't want to take any risks with the raid car..
    You should be able to find a decent set for about 40 or so dollars. Don't buy the el cheapo ones that are all on one crimper/stripper/pliers/screw cutters, stamped from sheet steel, made in China. They're total crap and crimp about as well as I ****. As Adam mentions, go for a ratcheting set. You'll be a lot happier with the results, and your hands won't hurt near as much.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    These are the type Adam was talking about. They're cheap, but you aren't spending what I normally spend for a set. This will get you through a car and the ensuing repairs.

    This is an example of the cheap style I say avoid. The crimps are lousy and they're actually painful to use. I can say that this is a perfect "emergency" set- that is, you're stuck somewhere with no access to anything else, this will get you home.
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    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Hi Addo and HRE,

    Much appreciated! I must admit I had tried the cheapo ones and had not faith in the joints, which is why I've stuck with soldering to date

    HRE, what I am thinking to do is use original, non - insulated fittings either spade or bullet - is that the right term for the joints on a 2cv with the rubber over the top? I've salvaged a heap of the plastic spade terminal covers off GS wrecks, so I can keep the correct look.

    Is a single crimp tool like this the right one to use? 1 10 MM≤ Ratchet Crimper Crimping Tool Bare Ferrule Terminal Crimp Plier T0110 | eBay

    Cheers,
    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  19. #19
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    That looks like it should do the job you require, certainly a better prospect than the floppy pressed metal blade crimpers.

    Test a joint to destruction, by crimping and then seeing what happens when you try to pull your test wire out the terminal. You should either break the wire or tear the terminal on the far side of the crimp.

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    Andrew,
    is that GS voltage regulator a 'three pin' type, like these 2CV versions?
    If so, it will work, just make sure you have a good earth connection ( and don't mix up the wires/cross the beams) otherwise it's game over for the electronics...

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/301328...otolist-9GmEET

  21. #21
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    Hi Ken,

    The one I've got is from a later model - approx 1978. It's a solid aluminum Bosch with two pins coming out of a clear resin base, DF and D+ from memory. Presumably it earths via the case.

    Cheers,
    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  22. #22
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    Default some progress

    Finally got organised to make some progress with the wiring.

    Here is what we were dealing with - corroded brass, hard rubber and black goo. It looks like WD or something like that had been squirted into the connectors, turning the rubber into black slime.
    2cv / dyane light question-20160423_103509%5B1%5D.jpg2cv / dyane light question-20160423_121544%5B1%5D.jpg
    First step was to spray the lugs / wires with greaser, then soak in vinegar for about 10 min to remove the corrosion.

    2cv / dyane light question-20160423_103537%5B1%5D.jpgYou can see the copper colour, where the zinc has corroded away

    Next was to dip in an ultrasonic cleaner with a little bit of degreaser. Afterwards it was soaked in water and wiped with a microfibre cloth - looking shiny now!
    2cv / dyane light question-20160423_103519%5B1%5D.jpg

    Finally the rubbers where replaced with sections cut from vaccum hose and smeared with the smallest amount of bulb grease to help them slide over the connectors
    2cv / dyane light question-20160423_110245%5B1%5D.jpg2cv / dyane light question-20160423_104857%5B1%5D.jpg

    End result - brighter headlights and working indicators - at last!

    Cheers,
    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  23. #23
    JBN
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    Nice job, nice photos. I do like the original connectors while the rubber lasts. The coloured plastic collars make identification easy and the connectors clip and unclip easily as the rubber sleeves make them "spring loaded".

    Well done.

    John

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    Andrew,
    clear silicone hose seems to work well as a replacement for the original rubber sleeves and is less bulky than vacuum hose.
    Also, some Vaseline/petroleum jelly on the contact surfaces of the connectors slows down the tendency for verdigris to form...

    Clear silicone tubing as sleeving on bullet connectors by slcchassis, on Flickr

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    Hello, when adding to the loom I've been using the 'Japanese' 3.9mm bullets from Vehicle Wiring Products. They fit the Citroen connectors.

    Japanese Motorcycle Bullet & Socket Connectors > Non Insulated Terminals > Terminals > Home > Vehicle Wiring Products Ltd

    Peter

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