Aluminium boot lid
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Thread: Aluminium boot lid

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Aluminium boot lid

    I've tried a search of the posts of the forum without success, so my question is, did any DS23 sedans have an aluminium boot lid?

    Or is this just a rumour?

    Also, I was under the impression that all DS sedans had a fibreglass roof, were any manufactured with an aluminium roof?

    Can anyone confirm?

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    Cheers,
    Rod

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    You picked the wrong time to ask questions Rod, Echuca Citin this Easter week end and the others in a different time zone.

    Regards,

    John


    Quote Originally Posted by DS23Pallas View Post
    I've tried a search of the posts of the forum without success, so my question is, did any DS23 sedans have an aluminium boot lid?

    Or is this just a rumour?

    Also, I was under the impression that all DS sedans had a fibreglass roof, were any manufactured with an aluminium roof?

    Can anyone confirm?

    Cheers,
    Rod

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DS23Pallas View Post
    I've tried a search of the posts of the forum without success, so my question is, did any DS23 sedans have an aluminium boot lid?

    Or is this just a rumour?

    Also, I was under the impression that all DS sedans had a fibreglass roof, were any manufactured with an aluminium roof?

    Can anyone confirm?

    Cheers,
    Rod
    Aluminium bootlids were a very early DS feature and I suspect were fitted for a couple of years only. How they managed to get them to not collapse under their own weight. I have yet to discover.. Be gentle when removing the bolts on the hinges. By now the steel bolt will not like separation from the alloy housing. The steel bootlids have been known to twist fold and tear just rearward of the trailing edge of the hinge casting. There are two types of seals. The earlier crimped on lip and the later foam filled and "skinned" style that traps water in the lower rear corners and causes rust.Alloy roof panels were fitted to DS mainly in export countries. In OZ during the early 60s the alloy roof attracted a lesser $$$ duty a than the fibreglass ones so all (?) or most Oz built IDs had them. I know South African DS 21s has alloy roof panels. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. The unpainted fibreglass roofs by now will have degraded so that birds will be attracted to gain nesting materials. The alloy ones have a steel edge so will gave succumbed to electrolytic corrosion. The newer roofs also will have corrosion probs with the steel rim. There are two methods of attachment. The traditional bolted edge ( no bolts above the rear window though .. so 3 sided only ) and the later bonded in place ( also on both sides and the front ). EVERY D leaks, water dust and air.. in places that is their saviour in others not.

  4. #4
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    There's an interesting summary of the changes with time at DS ID club de France,évolution de la citroën DS.

  5. #5
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    You can also check out Nuancierds.fr. Go to the section marked "Technical Files". If you use Google as your browser, it can be set to automatically translate for you.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    only early DS19s' had alloy bootlids as far as I'm aware

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    My 1973 D Super 5 has a fibreglass boot lid which was made as a replacement in its later life. I was given the original aluminium one when I purchased the car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    only early DS19s' had alloy bootlids as far as I'm aware
    seeya,
    Shane L.
    G'day,
    were they made of alloy for the same reason that Land Rovers were ?
    regards,
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    My 1973 D Super 5 has a fibreglass boot lid which was made as a replacement in its later life. I was given the original aluminium one when I purchased the car.
    NOT Original on that car !
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    Good to see that every body is not in Echuca!

    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    You picked the wrong time to ask questions Rod, Echuca Citin this Easter week end and the others in a different time zone.

    Regards,

    John

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Buttercup's Avatar
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    DS19s had aluminium bootlids until May 1957.

    They have sometimes appeared on later cars as a replacement after collision or corrosion.

    I had a vigorous discussion about 10 years ago, with a DS21 owner, who insisted that his car had one when he bought it NEW.
    I suggested that maybe the car was damaged in shipping and was repaired pre delivery...... and suggested that a check of the paint inside the bootlid would reveal a previous colour.
    He scoffed at the suggestion, but kindly apologised some weeks later, when he discovered that there was indeed red primer and Slough cream top coat under the later white to match his car.

    The alloy bootlids are obviously light weight, and stay open nicely on the original springs.
    They are obviously less affected by corrosion, and were originally fitted with only rubber seal strips that did not hold water.
    I have several in perfect condition.
    I have not experienced any failure at the stress points at the end of the hinges.
    I have a couple where the rear edge stiffener piece has come detached making the lid very floppy. The stiffener was bonded with some sort of adhesive, and only a few spot welds.
    I have rebonded them with epoxy with perfect results..... even after 10 years of regular use.
    (if rebonding one.... make very certain that it is held perfectly aligned while the epoxy sets, because you can't reset it later, due to the immense stiffness imparted to the structure)

    I value them very highly, and would not sell one. If you find one, I'd suggest it is worth more than the rest of the car.
    I guess that about 40 would have come to Australia. All but 3 from Slough, the 3 from Paris are still known to exist in good condition.

    Very early DS19s (both Paris and Slough) had fibreglass roofs. Once Slough started building ID19s almost all their DS19s also got aluminium roofs. The aluminium ones were supplied with CKD kits as assembled in South Africa and Australia.
    Very few aluminium roofs survive in perfect condition, because of electrolytic corrosion with the steel retaining rim.
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    G'day,
    the D that appeared at the FCOTKD had a GRP boot lid.
    regards,
    Les W.


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    DS19s had aluminium bootlids until May 1957.

    They have sometimes appeared on later cars as a replacement after collision or corrosion.

    I had a vigorous discussion about 10 years ago, with a DS21 owner, who insisted that his car had one when he bought it NEW.
    I suggested that maybe the car was damaged in shipping and was repaired pre delivery...... and suggested that a check of the paint inside the bootlid would reveal a previous colour.
    He scoffed at the suggestion, but kindly apologised some weeks later, when he discovered that there was indeed red primer and Slough cream top coat under the later white to match his car.

    The alloy bootlids are obviously light weight, and stay open nicely on the original springs.
    They are obviously less affected by corrosion, and were originally fitted with only rubber seal strips that did not hold water.
    I have several in perfect condition.
    I have not experienced any failure at the stress points at the end of the hinges.
    I have a couple where the rear edge stiffener piece has come detached making the lid very floppy. The stiffener was bonded with some sort of adhesive, and only a few spot welds.
    I have rebonded them with epoxy with perfect results..... even after 10 years of regular use.
    (if rebonding one.... make very certain that it is held perfectly aligned while the epoxy sets, because you can't reset it later, due to the immense stiffness imparted to the structure)

    I value them very highly, and would not sell one. If you find one, I'd suggest it is worth more than the rest of the car.
    I guess that about 40 would have come to Australia. All but 3 from Slough, the 3 from Paris are still known to exist in good condition.

    Very early DS19s (both Paris and Slough) had fibreglass roofs. Once Slough started building ID19s almost all their DS19s also got aluminium roofs. The aluminium ones were supplied with CKD kits as assembled in South Africa and Australia.
    Very few aluminium roofs survive in perfect condition, because of electrolytic corrosion with the steel retaining rim.
    Excellent summary thanks Bob

    One query though, and this could be a case of Reynolds getting it wrong - page 28 'Original Citroen DS' he states that ALL South African cars were delivered with polyester (fibreglass) roofs. He also states early French cars destined to have black roofs used aluminium to permit spray painting

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Hi Chris,

    I don't have first hand experience with the South African cars, but understood that it was to do with the painting in remote assembly works, as the polyester requires different paint systems, and the remote works only used very limited colours, and probably only 1 paint system..... for metal panels.

    Also, The early parts books show aluminium roofs supplied (part number D 825 3b), replacing polyester ones since 1957.
    I always believed this was also because, as a replacement part, it would be painted in "the field", probably without the correct paints for polyester.

    I have a VERY early french DS19 with Aubergine (almost black) polyester roof. I have not come across any evidence to support Reynolds claim about the black paint. There are many other examples of detail errors in Reynolds book. Its possible that the black roofed car he inspected had received a replacement roof at some time?

    Buttercup is a VERY original Slough DS19 from March 1957, with a black polyester roof.
    As far as I know originally polyester and originally black

    Unless you personally know the history of a car, I think its very unreliable to look at a 40+ year old car and state with certainty that any particular part or feature is original.

    In 2002, I met and chatted at some length with the first owner of Buttercup. He was able to confirm lots of detail for me before I undertook restoration, before the trip to Paris in 2005.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 26th March 2016 at 12:54 AM.
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  15. #15
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    I had a DS 21 Pallas, Hydraulique, a 1968 model. It had the fibreglass roof, and an aluminium bonnet. I'm pretty sure the boot was also aluminium because it never had any rust at all, but I could be wrong about that.
    It had a fantastic rubber seal,the covered sponge rubber type, which never leaked a drop. The roof never leaked either .

    The boot did get rainwater in it, but it didn't get in through the boot lid seal. I found the place where the water was getting in.

    At some stage in the cars previous life , someone had pranged into the rear bumper. The stays were slightly bent, and the rubber seals no longer sealed to the body where the stays go through, so the rain ran along the stay and channeled into the boot.
    It was an easy fix.
    Cheers...

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    I'm still bummed out I didn't meet you at the 50th Anniversary in Paris Bob! I was busting to go for a spin in a D there : (

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Hi Chris,

    I don't have first hand experience with the South African cars, but understood that it was to do with the painting in remote assembly works, as the polyester requires different paint systems, and the remote works only used very limited colours, and probably only 1 paint system..... for metal panels.

    Also, The early parts books show aluminium roofs supplied (part number D 825 3b), replacing polyester ones since 1957.
    I always believed this was also because, as a replacement part, it would be painted in "the field", probably without the correct paints for polyester.

    I have a VERY early french DS19 with Aubergine (almost black) polyester roof. I have not come across any evidence to support Reynolds claim about the black paint. There are many other examples of detail errors in Reynolds book. Its possible that the black roofed car he inspected had received a replacement roof at some time?

    Buttercup is a VERY original Slough DS19 from March 1957, with a black polyester roof.
    As far as I know originally polyester and originally black

    Unless you personally know the history of a car, I think its very unreliable to look at a 40+ year old car and state with certainty that any particular part or feature is original.

    In 2002, I met and chatted at some length with the first owner of Buttercup. He was able to confirm lots of detail for me before I undertook restoration, before the trip to Paris in 2005.
    It would be interesting to hear from members from South Africa, (CorneSouthAfrica where are you!!). Reynolds seems adamant that even with CKD cars going into South Africa the roofs were polyester, he again makes mention on page 125 and points out this was an exception to export models. The rule appears to be Aluminium as it was better suited to transit. Seems many aspects of the South African cars make them a curiosity. . .

    I do agree with you regarding 'Original Citroen DS' a great resource but not always 100% accurate, where it fails it does give us a point of reference for discussion

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  18. #18
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    Hi, I have a South African assembled DS23, it has an aluminium roof and a fibreglass boot lid. I'm not sure if these are original to the car as it was fully dismantled when I got it!

    Cheers,
    Ed

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    To resurrect an old thread...

    My 1970 DS21 is having some work done and I have discovered that I have both an Aluminium boot lid and an aluminium roof. These are obviously not original to my car, so I guess they were fitted some time later.
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  20. #20
    Tadpole
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    When restoring my '75 DS Pallas 20-years ago I needed a new boot lid due to usual rust issues caused by sponge like boot seal.
    Back then Citro Motors had lots of used 'lids' out back all stacked like slices of toast in a rack.
    I chose the least worst looking.
    Upon my surprise (delight!) it was a very early aluminium one.
    From memory it needed a spot of aluminium welding to fill a couple of holes used to mount the early boot badges (although couldn't be certain these are what they were for).
    Anyway you may be able to check period of the boot by locating any evidence of such welding.
    Cheers


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    Hi Guys,

    It seems there were a lot of early aluminium bootlid around, and ended up on later cars, especially those fitted with the original Pallas / export foam boot lid seals.

    I'm not sure about the original DS fibreglass roofs, but all late model roofs were a "Gel Coat" finish and not painted, even with the metallic colours. That why there was always a noticeable difference in the colour of the roofs to the body.

    All D Specials were white Gel Coat.

    This is probably part of the reason to fit an aluminium roof to export cars, as it was a much easier panel to paint, and glass roofs were already coloured during manufacture?

    Most roofs on late cars were repainted to match the body colour very early in their life as the gel coat deteriorated badly in our climate.

    All the late D Specials in Australia had their roofs repainted before sale to match the body colour.

    Best regards,

    Greg
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